XcaliburGirl

Hi Everyone,

I have 2 goldfish (I think common, maybe comet, got to take a look at them when I get home) that my husband got from a fair in a small container which is maybe 3inWx8inLx6inD. Poor impulsive guy bought them on a whim, not knowing any better. After doing some research, we are buying a second-hand 20 gallon tank (no room or money for bigger at the moment).

Anyway, one of them has a black spot on his nose and tips of his fins which I read may be ammonia poisoning. He was like that when we got him, so we thought it was just natural coloring. He seems to be acting ok as far as I can tell.

We just did about a 30% water change in the container last night and are picking up the tank tonight.

So my question is, is it better to do a fishless cycle on the tank and keep them in the tiny container with daily water changes, or to get them in the tank as soon as possible?
I can test the water quality in the container when I get home if that makes a difference. They've been in the container for 4 days.

I could not find Bio-Spira or SafeStart at Petco, just Cycle which I bought. I could probably get SafeStart online, but then have to wait for it to be shipped.

Also, should we do something about the black coloring?

Amanda

I would try to get the SafeStart. I used that in my 55 gal. & it worked wonderfully. That way you can get the fish in the new cycled tank in a few days.

sirdarksol

Cycle is a waste of money, in most peoples' opinions. If you haven't opened it, you may just want to return it to Petsmart. It doesn't actually cycle the tank, it just keeps it in a mini-cycle.
On the other hand, Prime, Ultimate, or another equivalent water conditioner will help detoxify the ammonia in the tank, helping the fish survive the cycle.

If you can't get SafeStart, it's better to keep them in the tank and do daily partial water changes to get them through the cycle. In addition to diluting the waste products, this will also ease the stress of being in a too-small container.

If the black spots are ammonia poisoning, the best thing you can do is keep the water as clean as possible.

Welcome to Fishlore, and good luck with your fish.

Lucy

Hi XcaliburGirl Welcome to Fish Lore

1st let me say, congrats on doing research and providing for your goldies.

What an excellent question!
Although I would never voluntarily do a cycle with fish, I think in your case I would.
The ammonia will build up a lot quicker in that little tank.

What are you using to test? The API master kit is recommended by most members here. The strips are inaccurate.

Test daily, as soon as you can any ammonia reading start doing daily water changes of 50% until the tank is cycled.
Here's a link explaining the nitrogen cycle:

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm


The black might be your fish's natural coloring.

Others may disagree with my opinion, so you might want to wait to see what some other members recommend.

Good luck.

Edit: SDS posted right before me, he's much more knowledgeable than I am.

sirdarksol

And yet you gave more info than I. Don't short-change your own knowledge, Lucy. You may make a mess when you're baking the cookies, but that doesn't mean your experience is worth any less than mine.

Lucy

Thanks for the compliment SDS

sirdarksol

No problem. I'm glad you got the reference.

Devon

Welcome to FishLore and many kudos for doing your research and making the commitment to be responsible for your pets. Ideally, two goldies would be best in 30+ gallons (they are notorious poopers! ) but 20 gallons should be fine for now as long as you keep a close eye on their water parameters. Just be prepared to do maybe 2 water changes a week, instead of one 50% a week.
I'll reiterate that Cycle is garbage. It was responsible for a lot of dead fish when I first started and didn't know any better. Bio-Spira is the most recommended cycling agent, but they've discontinued it under that name and it can now only be found as TetraAqua's Safe Start. Be careful that you purchase the bacteria cycling agent and NOT the water conditioner. The water conditioner is great (I use it in all my tanks) but it won't get you cycled!!
Goldfish come in many colour varieties, and I've had ones with funny black spots on their faces before; it was just how their markings were. Can you post photos?
I wish you guys the best of luck with your goldies. You're going to love fish keeping!

Barbrella

Just want to add that Comets can grow over a foot long, need ponds or huge aquariums, and can't be kept in 20 gals.

You might want to give it to a petstore and just keep one fish in that tank.

Allie

I agree you need to return the goldfish and get some fish that is appropriate for a 20g. You have many options with a 20g.
There are reasons people keep goldfish of all types in ponds and not inside in tanks.

PetSmart

I've seen hundreds of comets that were bred in ponds or large aquariums with outstanding water quality that had black noses usually accompanied by black edges on their fins.

catersun

post a wanted ad on craigslist for some cycled fish tank gravel. I'm sure a hobby aquarist in your area would be happy to help you out. I have seen tanks cycle in 3 days with the help of an old filter or gravel.

XcaliburGirl

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I posted on Craigslist for mature gravel, but no luck.

I also am not having luck finding SafeStart. All the pet stores I called keep saying "Well, we have [insert name of water conditioner], it's the same thing." Very frustrating.

Does anyone know anywhere online I can buy it? I see several websites but they are all in the UK.

XcaliburGirl

Anyone hear of "TLC"? One of the pet stores said they had that and it's the same as SafeStart. (I'm inclined not to believe him.)

sirdarksol

It will not work (I don't think). It is bacillus Subtilis, which is the spore-forming, soil-based nitrifying bacteria. Over time, the stuff drowns, releasing ammonia back into the water supply. In the meantime, it takes ammonia away from the aquatic stuff, meaning your cycle doesn't even start.
None of my preferred sellers carry Tetra Safestart, and I don't want to suggest a site I haven't been to. If you enter "Tetra Safestart" into a search engine, though, you'll get a bunch of sites that sell them.

Alessa

or if you go to the tetra website, look in products, and type your zip code, it will show you who carries it around your area.

XcaliburGirl

Ok, just got the tank last night (seller had to reschedule). I mentioned to the person who sold it to us that we had the fish already and he very kindly offered us some of his gravel.

We set up the tank and I put the gravel in a nylon stocking in the filter. Then, since we were tired, we went to bed with everything running.

I then remembered this morning that it might be better if the bacteria in the gravel had some food so we added a couple of flakes this morning.

Water test results this afternoon before fish: (returned the strips and got the API Freshwater Master instead, thanks for the recommendation)
pH 7.8 (a little high for goldfish? Is it enough to be worried? Profile says 6-7.5)
Ammonia 0 (maybe slightly higher, but well below the next color:0.25)
nitrite 0
nitrate 0

So did I mess up the effect of the cycled gravel by not adding fish or food right away or will it take a few days to get readings? Also, there was a 3 hour gap before we got the cycled gravel into the filter (stopped at pet store, that took longer than anticipated, had to set up tank, etc.).

We just added the fish. One seems to be listing a little to one side. Maybe it gulped too much air while in the small container?

welshalien

Here's a site that I've used to order Safe Start:

http://www.paradisepetshop.net/en/tetra-safestart.html


Unfortunately, what it shows is who carries Tetra products in your area...and they don't always carry the specific product you are looking for. Example: for my zip code, Walmart comes up as a supplier. My local Walmart carries several Tetra products but not Safe Start.

Kelly

Ghostfish

Do not get too caught up in that pH reading. It is better just to remember what your current reading is and if you see a sudden change you know there is a problem. The fish will adjust to it.

Lucy

I don't think the not feeding the bacteria over night would be a big deal. As long as it stayed warm and wet, it should be ok.

I agree with Ghostfish about the ph, your fish will adjust, what's important is that it's consistant.

When you're testing with the API mater kit, you have to really shake, band and beat up the nitrate bottle #2, otherwise it won't mix correctly and you'll get a false reading.

Keep checking your water daily and make a log of it, it'll give you a better idea of where you stand with the cycle.