Lionfish17

I have to beautiful goldfish. One is a Ryukin and the other is a comet with a long flowing tail. Heres my problem.

They are both lying at the bottom of the tank. Not really don't squat. They get up to eat and thats about it I have put a tiny bit of salt in there to help *thank you fishlore * but there still lifeless. I just read through the nitrogen cycle, but thats not the problem. There levels are fine and I did a 25% water change this morning, then again checked with testing strips..

Whats wrong with my babies

ThisGuy

How big is the tank? Goldfish are dirty fish and need 10 gal per fish. The test strips are inaccurate the liquid tests are much more accurate. How much are you feeding them a fish's stomach is the size of its eyeball and thats how much you should feed it. It could be bloating check out the Goldfish Profile

Cheers

Ryan

Lionfish17

They are small as of currently, so I just have a 10 gallon for them. I only feed them a pinch and every morning they get a tasty treat of frozen brine shrimp. They are only fed what they can eat within 3 minutes. I bought a goldfish book at the pet store today and all the signs my little guys are giving me, according to the book, point to Swim Bladder Disease.
Here's my test results:
nitrate: 20
nitrite: .5
Hardness: 120
Alki: 180
pH: 8.0

Blub

Test strips give you very false readings. Get an API Freshwater master test - it's a test kit that works and the most accurate I know of. For 2 goldies you need at least a 30gal tank, the rule is 20gal for goldie 1#, and 10gal for every goldfish after that.

sirdarksol

ammonia is lacking on that list, but given the other numbers, I'm guessing you've got ammonia in your tank, which could be part of the problem. If you have a nitrite reading at all, that means your tank has not cycled. Any amount of nitrite or ammonia is dangerous to fish (although goldfish are generally hardy enough to weather a bit of poisoning and be little worse for the wear. It's still better to not expose them to it if it can be avoided)

It sounds like you're feeding them just right, so that's good.

Goldfish are really, really smart fish that need space, not just because of the waste they produce, but because they will get listless due to what amounts to depression.

Also, please don't add salt to a goldfish tank. Some of the stuff on the fishlore main site is old information that we are kind of powerless to change. The general purpose of salt is to ease osmotic stress and to kill fungus. I'm guessing that you don't need the former (high pH generally means hard water, which is what the salt mimics), and there are better ways to deal with the latter. In short, it's a treatment tactic that, in most cases, has become outdated, though some people who have been in the hobby for a while may still use it.

Short term, do several small water changes a day to clean the water up a bit for them. Water changes almost never hurt, and are almost always helpful.

Long term, as Hatchet said, 30g is the standard size for a pair of goldfish, both due to waste production and need for swimming space.

Good luck to you and all of your fish. Keep us posted and keep the questions coming as they arise. We are more than happy to continue to help.

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore.

I agree with SDS and also would ask if they have had the same amount of appetite lately? Any white or clear stringy poop?

Lionfish17

I haven't seen them poo at all, thats why im a bit concerned. They have had the same appetite. they are still pigs Im going to do water changes, if it is ammonia, how do you make that go away??

Charmaine

If it is swim bladder, take a peeled green pea chop it up and give it to your fish once in the morning and if neccessary once at bed time. Keep a close eye on them.

Lucy

Daily water changes, 50% until your finished cycling, you might want to use Prime as your water conditioner because it does help with ammonia.
It would be wise to invest in a better test kit, the API master kit is very accurate, it's a bit pricey, but well worth it.

Good luck

Lionfish17

I have heard alot of different people tell me about the cut up peas... does it actually work? I have a feeling my ammonia level is high, but my comet is active, its the ryunkin thats not moving very much..

Charmaine

It worked for me and I have some friends that had the same problem and they tried it and it worked.

sirdarksol

It would make sense that the comet is doing better than the ryunkin. Comets are a more generic goldfish. In general, this means they are hardier and healthier than the specialized ones.
I have heard that the pea is not a cure, but a treatment.
If it turns out to be swim bladder, and if the pea thing helps, another thing you can do to help is get them sinking goldfish food (OmegaOne makes a good sinking goldfish food). Apparently, a common source of swim bladder problems for goldfish and koi is the air they suck up when eating at the surface. I guess it's because they are supposed to be bottom feeders and their bodies aren't made to expel the extra air when they eat at the surface. Not sure about that reasoning, though.

Lionfish17

I will try the peas, gotta go to the store but, how can i help put my ammonia level to 0?

Lucy

You have to do daily water changes, at least 50% until your tank finishes cycling, you're going to have ammonia readings.

Once you have enough benefical bacteria, it will consume the ammonia your fish produce.

Lionfish17

awesome. thank you guys so much for your help

Lionfish17

ok since i have a thread on my goldfish, i want to throw in this question.
Can I use a substrate, ie Pool filtered Sand? I like the look of sand tanks, but im not sure it is right for my goldies. I was told by a few petsmart employees (im really getting tired of these people, thank goodness I found fishlore) that i can use sand for my goldies instead of gravel because if the fish suck up the gravel, it can get stuck in there throats and they can/will die.
So, mainly, is sand safe? Yay or nay?

MissMTS

I have sand in a couple of my tanks and it works great. Gravel is also fine. I have never heard of a fish sucking up gravel......

Lionfish17

thats good to hear.. goldies will be ok?

MissMTS

They should be fine

Lucy

Goldies will suck up gravel, if you use it make sure it can't fit in their mouths, keep in mind that they'll grow.

I've seen a goldfish swallow gravel and I've also had to pry it from their mouth with a tooth pick when it got stuck.

Lionfish17

wow. so im going to go get some sand. plus i really like the look
where can i find pool filtered sand?

sirdarksol

This is actually a feeding tactic. The gravel in question must have been precisely the wrong size to get stuck. Carp pick up little bits of detritus from the bottom and suck the organic matter off of it. I have gravel (small-sized) that my goldfish and koi will pick at. They suck a piece up and then spit it out a moment later.
A local Chinese restaurant has a tank with marbles for substrate and huge koi that do the same thing.

Lucy

Granted, they do usually spit it out, but this gravel was stuck, for sure, twice with 2 different goldfish. Both times they were in distress.

sirdarksol

I believe you. Like I said, I'm guessing the gravel was exactly the wrong size: just small enough for a particularly determined goldfish to get it in its mouth, just big enough to make spitting it out impossible.

Lucy

Yeah, I found it weird that it happened at all.

sirdarksol

Hey, we did a stellar job of hijacking this thread.

Lucy

oops

Charmaine

Your goldies will be fine. The only difference between sand and gravel is that gravel is easier to clean than sand!!

Lionfish17

lol. lucy.. you hijacker its ok. im learning alot. i didn't know goldies can be such an expensive pain. but i love them. I think the tank has started to cycle, my little guys have become way more active yay!

Lucy

Sir said WE, lol. I was gonna tell a mod, but oh wait, he is one!

Congrats on the start of the cycle. Keep up the water changes and you should be fine. I love goldies, the have such personality.
Have you posted pics yet?