dkane

hi there guys!

i have a 250 litre tank given to me by a friend which has an under gravel filter system, there have not been fish in the aquarium for about 6 months it had just been put in the garage. before finding this website i stupidly followed the aquatic shops advice so please excuse my naivity.

i set up my tank about 5 weeks ago, i let it stand for 1 week and took the water to be tested. the guy said the tank was now "mature" enough for fish bearing in mind i had only added prime to the water so far. so i picked two oscars. things were great and then i started doing my research...so i went out and bought a water test kit, tested my levels and my nitrites and nitrates are through the roof! there is no ammonia present. i have done a 50% water change a few days ago. however last night i noticed white speckles over the fish and upon further investigation realised they are covered in them. so i have a big problem! a tank part way through its cycle with ill fish if only i had found this website sooner!

so.....

what i need advice on is what i am planning to do....

i have a quarantine tank which i bought today. i am thinking of filling the quarantine tank with my tank water and transferring the fish into that and them treating them for white spot. my original tank i am thinking of completely emptying it, washing everything in boiled water and starting fresh and using bio spira or something similar to cycle the tank fast so that when my oscars are fully recovered i can add them back to the tank without any further harm.

how does that sound? any other advice greatly received.

i cant believe i was so dumb. i am gutted

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore!!

dont be so hard on your self...most of us went through this...

first off, you are still going through your cycle but you arent far off as you have nitrate readings now....

second, you have ICH..and the treatment for that is to just turn up your temp to 83F for two weeks and that should kill the life cycle of the ich...

third..DAILY water changes treating the tap water with prime, will finish your cycle..as well as keep the water full of oxygen because warmer temps lack it....

your fish should clear up with the higher temps and the cycle with fish should complete with daily changes to keep the fish from being poisioned... the only thing is, 60L tank isnt enough near enough for one oscar, let alone two ....as juvies, if they are, they should be ok for a very short period of time...but two oscars need more like 125 gallons...

do NOT clean everything and start over..other wise you will loose the part of the cycle you have completed...goodluck!!

dkane

ok so....50% water change daily, turn up the temp and that should cure them in about 2 weeks. so the white spot treatment i bought shall i just disregard that? i will continue to test the water every other day and when the nitrite levels are 0 that means my tank is fully cycled? would it then be ok to add a couple more fish?

the one thing i did look into was the size of the oscars, i am planning on getting a tank the full length of my dining room wall as soon as it is habitable so was going to transfer the oscars to that in a couple of months.

Evelyn1919

hi Dkane and welcome to fishlore!
like Shawnie said do NOT empty your tank. all you need to do is 50% water changes every day and raise the temp. if you do this you will have no more problems.
if you want to cycle ASAP then use biospira or the new version which i'm not sure what it is called but i hear it works great! i went to my LFS this w/e and they already have it and were actually almost out of it.
also check your water everyday so you know how you are doing with your cycle.

good luck & keep us posted.

oh and do not add any more fish to your tank.

Evelyn1919

if you are going to get a much bigger tank i would suggest you first get the tank and then add more fish.
and i just wouldn't bother using any meds. by doing water changes and high temp it should be enough.

dkane

i checked my water friday and nitrites and nitrates were through the roof - i have just checked the nitrites again and no improvement. is it supposed to take this long?

so just to confirm (sorry for being tedious) i do not need to add any treatment to the water. how about cleaning the gravel with the vacuum or cleaning the decor in the tank as i have read that the ich sticks to them? i dont want the tank to clear up and then get re-infected.

once the white spots dissappear shall i turn the temp back down?

Evelyn1919

keep doing 50% daily water changes and it will get better. also it will take about 4 to 6 weeks for the cycle to be done. it took me 4 months but that's only cuz i kept doing some crazy things and adding fish to my tank. check out this link
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm so that you can understand about the cycle a little better. it takes time and lots of work when you have fish in your tank. like i said before another good way to do it is using biospira wich will cycle your tank in about 1 week.

if i'm not mistaking the high temp of your tank should kill all the ich even on the decorations, plants, gravel etc.
when going through your cycle you should not vaccum the cravel because a lot of the bacteria will be there. once you are done with your cycle then you should vacuum 2/month or something like that.

jdhef

Apparently the Nitrite cycle takes a longer time to complete than the ammonia cycle. My ammonia cycle took two weeks, but I'm into my third week of the Nitrite cycle and impatiently waiting for it to end.

I don't know for sure, so someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that two weeks of higher temps will kill of the ick on your gravel and decor. On the plus side higher temps may speed up the cycle.

Good Luck
John

Oh yeah, if you do use the ick medicine, be sure to remove your carbon from your filter, since it will just filter out the medicine. Personally though, I would try curing the ick without the medicine.

Shawnie

NO you cannot add any more fish...60L tank is about 15 gallons and ONE oscar needs at least 75 gallons...so you are way overstocked with just one...two months will be too long to wait to get a new tank...if its not possible to get a new tank asap, maybe return your oscars after they are healthy, and get some tetra's or danio's?

you can test your water every other day, but change it DAILY as the cycle isnt complete, and the warmer temps have less oxygen...

Evelyn1919

nitrogen cycle-first your ammonia will be high in your tank, then the new bacteria will make ammonia into nitrite and then another bacteria will make nitrite into nitrate.
when you see that there is no ammonia and no nitrites and you have about 10-20 of nitrates then your tank is cycled. usually takes between 4-6 weeks.
ammonia and nitrites are VERY toxic for your fish and that's why you have to do 50% water changes when cycling with fish. very high levels of nitrates are also toxic for the fish and that's why you have to do about 25% weekly water changes once your cycle is done, that way you keep the nitrates between 10-20.

oh and i'm not so sure about speeding up the cycle when raising the temp in your tank but i think i read that somewhere so that might be right.

dkane

shawnie - my tank is a 250 litre tank as i stated on my original post so my two oscars should be fine in there for a few more weeks? the two months i mentioned is the longest possible time they will be in it for.

i have just done a 50% water change and they look brighter already.

does anyone know anything about water marks? i have a very thin stubborn one i usually clean the inside of the glass with just a sponge and tank water but this one wont budge and i dont want to use anything harsher than a sponge as it will scratch the glass.

Shawnie

OOOPS! where did the 60 L go LOL ...did I just make it up?

so you have about 66 gallons which still isnt enough room but it will do for juvies for a few weeks..how big are your boys? and yes daily water changes are great for them until the cycle finishes...

dkane

they are at about 3 inches. they have a lot of room at the moment

Lucy

That sounds right.

I don't think light vacuuming would hurt the bacteria, left over food and fish waste will increase the ammonia.
The bottom can get pretty nasty over a 2 month period.

dkane

i thought it was safe to vacuum half the gravel when doing weekly water changes and then the other half the following week so not all the bad bacteria is being taken out.

Shawnie

it is, AFTER the cycle completes

dkane

right i think i am clear now, just a case of weathering the storm for a few more weeks, might take a look at our local aquatic centre for some bio spira.

thanks everyone!

Lucy

Just to be clear, it's NOT ok to do a light vacuuming? What about all the waste over 2 months?

dkane

lucy my tank is still cycling, when they cycle is complete i can start vacuuming but i shall alternate half of the gravel each week with each water change.
at the moment i am water changing every day as the fish have ich.

Shawnie

you MUST change the water DAILY but dont vaccuum unless its really poo'ey, until the cycle is done...A light surface vaccuum is ok if the poo is so overloaded but nothing to "CLEAN " persay

Lucy

Yes, I understand that.

Thanks Shawnie, I guess that's what I meant and wasn't quite clear. I didn't mean weekly vacuuming, just a light vacuum when needed. 2 months is a long time to let waste lie at the bottom.

dkane

the gravel surface looks pretty good, obviously its a bit poo'ey but il wait til its finished cycling.

Lucy

ok well, that's what I mean. I would still do a light vacuuming.
I wouldn't want my fish swimming in poo.

susitna-flower

OK, kids.......let's all hold hands!

It all depends on how "light, you are" , I agree a light vacuuming is not going to disrupt your cycle completely, and if you have heavy waste producers like oscars, or gold fish, it is probably a good idea. 1/2 one week and 1/2 the other should be fine.

What you DON'T want to do is...scrub anything, or discard filter material and replace. In my opinion the bacteria doesn't live IN the poo, but ON the gravel. It is good to get the poo out, to cut the total waste build up.

It is always best to try raising the temp for ich, only use medications if it doesn't improve within a few days...but if the spots are fewer, just keep up the 83 F and 50% water changes every other day, for the FULL two weeks.

Lucy

no worries susitna-flower. I always respect Shawnies advice.

Shawnie

and lucy and I just said the same thing just in different words and I totally respect hers as well

tzqng8

Peace, Love, and happiness!

Shawnie

dont forget a cold with all that !!!!

Lucy

COBettaCouple

Since you're treating ich, I would recommend cleaning the substrate at least once a week. Ich cysts can find a home in the substrate and be a source of a re-occurance of the ich.