MelissaF

I just bought my fish and I've read in a few places that you should either have one or more than three angelfish. Is this true, should I be worried. Mine are about 2 inches big but since I'm new to the fish experience and I only have a 10 gallon tank I don't want to get more fish just yet.

FishKing

No, angelfish are not suppose to be kept together in small groups. They are ciclids so when they get older they will pair off and fight for territory, and for a tank that size I would reccomend that you only have one in there or a breeding pair because they can get pretty big. Even for a pair it is too small but you can manage. Plus you have alot to learn because yo are a begginer.

SereneReyn

you should take the angelfish back. even one is too many for a 10 gallon tank. they need some height and room to swim or their growth will be stunted.

MelissaF

This may be a big no no but I know my tank is small. the thing is, I'm moving in less than a year so I was planning on upgrading when I was all settled.

SereneReyn

angels mature pretty fast (and most pet stores sell them at a decent size already, like a quarter-size minimum). unless you're moving in the next 3 months or so, i'd still advise against it... if you stunt their growth, they'll never get to be full sized, (and would likely be picked on if you added an angel or whatever later)... they'd probably have a shorter lifespan due to the stunting as well as other potential problems - digestion, swimming, immunity, bent fins...

but the choice is absolutely yours.

Gunnie

Melissa,
Welcome to FishLore! I understand your intentions to upgrade when you move, but you should always buy fish and put them in the tank from the beginning that is appropriate for their adult size. Things can happen, and that bigger tank never gets purchased, or you keep things the way they are, and you end up doing frequent water changes because of the tank size just to maintain decent water quality. Angels are a bit more sensitive than a lot of other species of fish, and can't tolerate less than perfect water conditions as well as other fish can. I think your first experience with a new tank would be much more pleasureable if you took the angel back and got a betta for that tank instead. I'm also guessing your tank isn't cycled either, and and angel in an uncycled tank would almost surely result in an early fish death in that tank.

MelissaF

Thanks everyone for the great advise.

SereneReyn

hope we didn't scare you off with our negativity... we're just trying to help.

MelissaF

nope not at all. Thanks

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore.

You might look into freecycle.com, craigslist.com and local yard sales or newspaper ads to find a deal on a 30g tank. You'll love your Angels - they have such personality and our Angel loves to take his food from my fingers. He begs for food when I get near the tank. lol.

I'd recommend the shark & pleco go back to the store though as they are going to need a 55-75g tank REALLY soon. The shark will likely go after the angels when he gets bigger and the pleco puts out more waste than you'd believe - he'll make the water chemistry toxic unfortunately. Don't feel bad - the pet stores do this to everyone and you didn't know how big the fish got. Plecos especially get sold with 10g tanks.

MelissaF

Thanks, well I don't have to worry about one of the angels and the shark anymore. I'm convinced the pleco killed it. They were battling for the same cover spot for quite a while.

SereneReyn

the pleco killed the angel? or the shark? sorry to hear it.

COBettaCouple

Are you sure it wasn't the other angel? It would be really unusual for a pleco to be able to take out those other 2 fish.

MelissaF

Who knows, I'm basically learning how to set up a tank the hard way. Sounds like a lot of people have made this mistake. Only my pleco is left now. I'm just going to continue trying to keep it alive and wait until my tank finishes its cycle before I get anymore fish.

On that note. I asked the people at the pet store if how to keep the cycle going if my last fish dies (which i wouldn't be surprised if it does at this rate). She said it's already started and no theres nothing for me to do but let it runs its course. Does anyone have another opinion. In reading the ammonia cycle article it says that if you start it with food you have to continure feedin the tank, if you put the meat in you let it decompose, etc. Without a fish in my tank will the cycle continue on it's own for do I need to put meat in it? Any ideas?

MelissaF

oh and I thought the pleco might have killed the shark. the angles never really ventured near the pleco or the shark and vis versa. They kept to each other and swam around.

SereneReyn

an empty tank needs some sort of source for ammonia, or any existing bacteria will die off. if your pleco dies, you could simply use fish food to continue the cycle. i'm sorry you lost your fish, btw... but it sounds like you're on the right track now.

MelissaF

how much fish food should I put in and how often? And thanks. I've been looking at other posts too to get a better selection and ideas for fish for my 10 gallon. Lucky that alot of people ask the same questions I have.

MelissaF

Would it work if I just left the dead fish in the tank (if it does die)? Also should I be cleaning my tank at during the cycle or just leave it be.

MelissaF

Oh and I have put in that stuff called cycle as well.

SereneReyn

i dunno about that... it might cause the ammonia you're looking for, although i wouldn't, for the ickiness factor, if nothing else... but also if you're unsure about a cause of death, it could be any number of things... parasites, fungus, etc. and i wouldn't want to risk letting something like that run rampant.

MelissaF

ok so fish food would be my best bet then. And cycle doesn't work the same as BioSpra does it.

Faye Rod

You can keep your pleco from dying by doing water changes that are indicated by your water testing with the API liquid test kit. The test strips are not accurate. If the fish store will take your pleco back (it's often recommended here) then you can go ahead and cycle fishless which is much better - just takes lots of patience before you get the fish. I cycled with fish and it meant changing water every day - and at the worst of the ammonia and then nitrite - we changed 25% twice a day. A lot of work!

There is lots of info here at Fishlore about how to cycle fishless. And also that Cycle is not the right kind of bacteria to help the "cycle!" Strange but true!

COBettaCouple

To keep the cycle going, you need a continuous source of ammonia. If you don't have fish waste, then fish flakes or ammonia drops can be used.

I'd focus on daily water changes of 25% and treat the water with both Prime and NovAqua+ to try to safe your pleco. And if he's eating, try the Omega One veggie rounds. The plecos love those.

MelissaF

What would be the best way to do the water change. Should I vaccume the gravel until the water level goes down 25%. My thinking is though that'll help clean up my tank and my poopy fish waste won't that be stressful on my pleco. Should I just scoop out 25% of the water with a bucket?

Again thanks for all the help.

MelissaF

The conditioners I added when I started up my tank on Friday was Aqua plus (which i think is different than NovAqua+) Waste control organic waste eliminator and cycle. Should I be looking for prime and NovAqua+ instead? I'm going to look for biospra but i think I'll have to order it.

MelissaF

alright scratch the biospira. turns out I can't get in canada. It's illegal here. Something about how they won't import a biological product in and I don't think I trust a courrier to get it here while its still viable.

SereneReyn

yeah, you should vacuum the gravel during a water change. if it were me, i would stop using cycle, because i wouldn't want to keep buying it for the life of the tank - i'd rather have the tank actually complete the cycle. i don't know what the waste control stuff you put in is at all. the conditioner you have is probably fine.

do you have a liquid test kit? that will help alert you to problems in the water. for now all you really need to worry about is keeping up on the water changes until you're through the cycle... but if you keep using 'cycle' then that could be awhile.

MelissaF

I'm going to pick up a test kit today. If stop using cycle won't my cycle start all over agian? Secondly I heard that if you do use cycle religously it works great. Dont get me wrong I don't want to be dependent on it but I'm afraid that I'll loose any progress that my tank has made and therefore subject my poor pleco to it again.

SereneReyn

i'm only saying what i would do. the tank will stabilize on it's own if you just let nature take it's course, with no need for a product like that at all. as far as 'losing any progress' i would rather start over and do it in a way that i see as 'the right way' than continue doing it 'the wrong way' forever and shelling out more and more money to a company making an inferior product. i don't dispute that with 'religious' use, as you say, it works great... but i do think that it's a product created with one goal in mind... money. and that just rubs me the wrong way - ofcourse companies want to make money, but there should be other factors in the equation, imo... especially where pets are concerned. <climbs down from the soapbox>

your pleco can get thru the cycle... it's just a matter of you being diligent about water changes and testing. you do have other options to help it along though... if you have any friends with established tanks, borrow some filter media... short of that, you could ask your LFS for some... heck, even a scoop of gravel might help a little. live plants will help alot, just make sure you have adequate lighting for the ones you choose.

MelissaF

What does LFS mean? Ok so just to make sure I understand. Stop using the Cycle (like the sound of that because I agree with your soapbox speach), let my tank run its course and all I need to do to help it along and help my fish is do daily water changes using the vaccum gravel technique and testing the water to monitor the progress of the cycle. Obviously treat the new water with the Aqua+ I have and thats it?
Does anyone know about the wast control stuff I was given?