SereneReyn

i'm not sure how the betta will do in there... i've never been a big fan, so i just can't say... otherwise, looks good... maybe 3 bronze corys?

richard7467

from what i've read if you keep one male he should do fine and stay away from nippers like barbs also male Guppies tend to get the Betta up for a fight however I maybe talking utter garbage, same as you I was never a fan of Betta's but since visiting this site they've grown on me.

chickadee

Well sorry to say that the bettas will not go with your combo there. They are related to gouramis and they fight to the death with them. Gouramis and Bettas are both very aggressive and territorial when it comes to tankmates and do not like to share so if you are going to have problems with anyone in the tank it will be with the bad boys of the tank and this means one of these two if they are together. The gouramis cannot be kept in pairs even sometimes. I have another member right now that is in a fright wondering what to do after the Pet Store sold her a second Dwarf Gourami telling her that it would be fine with the first at home in her tank already and she now has World War III going on at home in the tank and nowhere to go with the fish. (it is going back to the store) One betta would be a showcase fish but they do really rather much like to be alone as they are not raised with other fish and do not know how to relate to having other fish around. They are fantastic companions and lovely fish but they belong in a tank by themselves. This is where MTS hits hard. You need a second tank for a betta...

Now about the Otos. Otos are sweet and kind little fish and they do well with brown algae and are my favorite little sweeties for this purpose but they are fragile and will not make good first fish. They have a high loss rate due to the horrible handling they receive when they are captured. They are not bred in captivity and so must be caught in the rivers and streams of the countries they are native to. Those capturing them find that they are swift and hard to catch normally so they flood the water with cyanide. This dopes the fish and makes them easier to catch in large numbers. It also kills almost half of them. Then they go to petstores where perhaps (I will give them the benefit of the doubt) untrained employees keep the tanks clean of algae and feed the fish in them flake food which the Otos do not eat. This causes another half of the survivors or better to starve to death or at least to suffer a condition that results in their starvation. They have a bacteria in their stomachs that allows them to digest their food and when they go without food for a length of time (or food that they can or will eat) the bacteria dies making them unable to digest any food they do eat so they are unable to benefit from it. If you go to buy Otos and they do not have nice rounded little tummies and their tummies have red streaks or are hot red or dark pink in color, they are dying and do not purchase them. They are either infected or starving. The first 30 days is critical when you get them home. If they survive for the first 30 days, you may have them for years. I have owned probably 50 otos in my hobby experience and have 2 left. It is true that some died due to accidents where they got themselves caught in a piece of decoration or got bit by another fish or just got sick but the majority of them were just not strong enough to make it through quarantine. I have had 7 make it to their first birthday with me and 5 of these died of accidental causes. They are wonderful fish but they are hard fish to have for first fish and I do not want you to become discouraged with the hobby by taking on a fish that can break your heart.
There is a tiny little pleco that is not much bigger than my couple of Otos put together. He is a Clown Pleco and he does a good job of taking care of algae. He is an omnivore and will also take care of some of the leftover fish food the others are messy and do not clean up off the floor of the tank and clean up the decorations some too. He is nocturnal so you would not see much of him but if you are just looking for someone to do housecleaning actually most of them fit that category. Otos are nocturnal too. (and almost all Plecos) You would also not need more than one of him and it would save your fish inches for the fish that would be out during the day. He would take up 4 of them.

You can look to your hearts content now and please do not let us discourage you too much with your choice of fish. There are fish compatibility charts if you would like to see one that would give you an idea if there were fish you were considering that just won't work together. For some strange reason though, everyone keeps trying the Gourami/Betta thing and it will not work. One or the other will end up dead and the other injured.

Also, be careful of the meds Melafix and Pimafix if you decide to buy Gouramis or any of the Labyrinth Organ fish. It is toxic to them but for some reason, pet store owners keep selling it to treat them. It blocks the action of the Labyrinth Organ and makes it fail and the fish die horribly. The reason I mention this is because some pet store owners will recommend it to be used in the quarantine tanks of fish you buy for the first 7 days and it is not a good idea.

Hope some of this helps. (no I do not always post such ridiculously long posts)

Rose

chickadee

http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/g...3319&subref=AH

These are fairly good compatibility charts.

Happy Hunting.

Rose

richard7467

thanks Rose for the sound advice again, jesus find it hard to believe that the otos go through so much suffering but yet again you've come up trumps for me now this is a complete novices statement about the Betta/Gourami thing"they just look like they would get on"

Blub

richard7467

Hiya Hatchet
ok i've purchased a master test kit Nutrafin mini master (thats the only one they had)so i'll do a test after the football, this is my final stock wish list lol yeah right
6xJulii's(wifes names Julie gotta keep her interested plus I like em)same species your sound advice
8xCardinals
3xDwarf Gouramis 1 male 2 female Again sound advice
2x Hatchets or 3 Male Guppies or 2 Scissor Tails
Sounds good?Just an idea could I drop 1 or 2 from 1 of the schools and add a dwarf Ram?
I am starting to feel the symptoms of MTS inevitable me thinks found myself sizing up the other side of my conservatory.. thinking "hmmm yes I could fit a nice 4 foot in there yes a couple of Oscars with a red tail shark and maybe a Pleco yeah that would look great now how do I get Julie onside?"
What do you think of my stock wish list always grateful
oh excellent idea you've put to Rose shes a fountain of knowledge espiecially when it comes to Bettas

Blub

richard7467

I've got blinds behind my tank and no sunlight comes through the roof so hopefully it should be okay
OK heres the results of my new test
Temp 25.5 Deg C
ph 8
ammonia 0
nitrite 0.1 mg/l
nitrate 5 mg/l
i've just added some flakes to promote bacterial growth.

richard7467

You mentioned dead fish to kick start the cycle would opening a tin of sardine washing all the oil and tomato sauce out then placing one of them in the tank would that be perfectly ok.

chickadee

Sorry, but I think the idea is a piece of raw shrimp or fish that has not been cooked yet. It has to convert to ammonia and I am not sure the cooked and tinned kind would do as well. Plus I am never sure you could get ALL the oil out and it would not take much to undo a whole tank of fish. Even with water changes, I would be afraid to say Go Ahead on that one.

The quickest option of the fishless cycles is the Ammonia method. It is somewhat of a job to find pure ammonia. Usually found at hardware stores and the such, but definitely worth the search I found as my tank cycled in about a week and it was okay to start using with only a water change as I did not have rotting flakes or any of the other stuff floating about in my tank. The directions are in one of the options under Fishless Cycling in the following article.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

It leaves you with a cycle that will support a couple of small fish to begin with. You must remember that even when the cycle is complete you are not going to be able to get all the fish at one time. They will have to be introduced slowly to avoid overloading the cycle and throwing your tank into a mini-cycle and setting the whole process back and risking losing fish. The first couple of weeks you can have a couple of small fish and then add a couple more and so on about every 2 weeks. I know that this is going to be a drag after the wait to have to wait to put them all in but it is worth the wait. Also the fish sound pretty. I do not think I would plan on adding a Ram in this tank. (MTS..here you come...good excuse for a second tank) You will want to do just one thing as far as order of introduction is considered. You always want to introduce the territorial fish LAST. (the gouramis) This allows the other fish to establish their territories and to make the gouramis think that they are entering a new territory that THEY must fit into. They will settle where there are not already fish to be dealt with more than likely and there will not be the fighting problems there would be if you allowed them to pick out THEIR territory first as they would consider it ALL their territory. Then every new fish you introduced would have had to fight for space and some of them would have died from fright. (Cories) If the cories and cardinals and others are all there first, the gouramis will not fight them as likely.

Hope this makes sense.

And Hatchet, thanks but I am not even close to being the most knowledgable one on the forum. I am just long winded . Dino has been to college to study the fish and biology and Ross works with him. Carol has had many more kinds of fish and breeds her cories and plecos, something I would never be confident enough to do. Dave and Stacy have bred bettas and this is another thing that I am not confident enough to do myself. Mike and Agansoo have entered the world of Saltwater tanks and that is much more difficult and hard to learn than what I do. Kimberly has kept fish that fascinate me and she and Carol saw me through my stupid days when I did not know anything about anything (worst member for stupid mistakes I ever knew, ME)..those two and Dino were moderators on multiple forums and hold down full time jobs too. Oh, I could go on and on...and you have seen me do it. I just happen to be someone who has had a lot of time to spend with her fish and decided to learn about them. But I really do not know a whole lot more than I know, believe me. But I do thank you for the compliment.

Rose

richard7467

Thanks for that rose, so have I got this right once the cycle finishes i'll have to do a water change before i add fish so if my first were say 4 cardinals then 10 days later add the final bunch to the school then begin with the Cories and so on and so forth...

Blub

richard7467

ha ha now heres the conundrum because Rose is saying if I put the Gourami's in first they will claim the whole tank as their territory and give the less domonent species a bit of a hard time and will struggle to prove their own, maybe if I give the cardinals a good team talk before they go in....no seriously how about if I do my cycle with Ammonia and load the tank with bacteria and put the whole school of Cardinals in at once having just read up on the Ammonia method of cycling this maybe a viable option.

Blub

richard7467

Hatchet- Thats what I thought I was thinking about ringing the Guiness Book of Records for the fastest cycled tank ever i've done a couple of more tests just to make sure I wasn't getting my Nitrates and Nitrites mixed up the but i'm not. my tap water does have a small amount of Nitrate not as much as 5 more like 3 the colour is between the two lowest guides. My only thought is that the cycle hasn,t begun yet, so i'm of to Homebase tomorrow to get some Ammonia.

Blub

richard7467

Nice one Hatchet was intending to go and get some today but I got up a little late was reading the Forums on here til silly o'clock I can now see how people really do get into this hobby i'm loving it and I haven't any fish yet!

richard7467

How about peeing in it lol...hmm now theres a thought...nah i'll swerve that idea lol

Blub

richard7467

How about dog pee or is that just taking it a little to far?

SereneReyn

well, i can't imagine wanting to try it badly enough to collect it...

richard7467

where thers a will there's a way thats what I say labour of love or possibly complete and utter frustration

richard7467

i'm on the move added the Ammonia today stands at 6ppm now i'll sit back and wait for the bacteria to form and consume that stinking Ammonia.

Blub

richard7467

sorry mate i'm already giving enough to charity no offence good luck any =way any chance of someone giving me a 4 foot tank with a nice house over looking the sea!

Blub

richard7467

sorry mate didt quite get your last..the last one I read seemed like.. you were asking for money...forgive if im wrong love to help but im poor.

chickadee

richard, I think Hatchet was only saying that this is what he was asking for at his birthday, not from you.

Hatchet, the link to timandkaren is on the following list: http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/members/list/t1.html

The members list can be found above under Quick Links in the toolbar.

The ammonia you need to use is the type that does not have surfactants in it. It needs to be the type which does not bubble up when mixed with water. I have used ammonia to cycle before and it is regularly FAST.

I would not add a whole school of Cardinals as it will stress the new cycle. The only way I would consider it is to continue the treatment with ammonia for a week or so after the cycle is technically completed to allow for more bacteria to grow and become established and populate the tank so as to be able to handle the increased bioload. Then you may be able to get by with it. You could put the two FEMALE gouramis in the tank perhaps but not the male. He will have to wait until the last for sure. I just do not know enough about their territorial nature for females to know whether it would be a problem for you. I know that putting 3 cories in would work if you still plan on them. Then you could add the others when you get another couple of weeks in on the cycle. By the time you had 4 weeks in on the cycle you should be established enough to add the Cardinals (the whole school) and then another 2 weeks and you can add the Gouramis (all of them). Does that sound feasible? Cories do not have to be added all at one time to assimilate into a school. I have never had them have a problem with even having more than one type together. They all seem to get along together fine and love each other. I had Sterba's and Peppered Cories together and they got along fine and they were added one at a time.

Rose

richard7467

I hear everything you are all saying(Hatchet sorry mate if i got the wrong end of the stick) Rose/Hatchet I love everything your saying its all good stuff call me if you want to, but i'm gonna have to find out for myself i'm not gonna add any fish for a while yet got to get my head properly sorted with the bacteria Nitrates/Nitrites and such (sounds stupid maybe) but I realy do need to understand this otherwise i'll get frustrated and ignorant so im going to continue with the add and wait method and get the tank firmly cycled does that make sense? (hope so) if I sound like i'm telling you to suck eggs forgive me once again all replies thankfully taken.