oneninjamonkey

I never thought I would say it but I'm crazy about the idea of getting some fish! My parents had pacus when I was a little kid but I barely remember anything about them except dropping a sandwich in once. Also I use to have some aquatic frogs when I was younger that I absolutely loved but accidents occurred as they always do and the frogs met untimely deaths. Now I'm getting really interested in starting a fish tank in my bedroom, I'm not really into cute and fuzzy pets (I'm dealing with six dogs at the moment) but I'd love some fish to admire and take care of.

I've got a few questions though before I start shopping.

I'd love to keep a betta and an african dwarf frog together. I think frogs are cute and I think they'd make quite the odd couple. I don't have a lot of extra space in my room so I'd like to just get a 5 gallon tank. Is that unreasonable, should I just try my best to get a 10? If I got a 10 could I squeeze in an extra bottom dweller or an invert?

Also what are good tank kits? I'm looking to not spend too much money but get something thats quality.

Any help would be amazing!

Chief_waterchanger

I will leave the compatability of bettas and frogs for someone with more frog experience, but I would always try for the largest tank I could get. A 10g with a betta and a bamboo shrimp would be fine. We have a betta housed in a tank with a bamboo shrimp and have had no problems with the two of them. We do have some guppy grass that the shrimp loves to stay inside of, so I would definately provide some live plant-life of some sort.

(I hope you realize now that pacu are not good to keep by the common fishkeeper. They are schooling fish that can get upwards of 4 feet in length and need 400 gallons of water per fish. So for 6 of those (recommended schooling size) they would need 2400 gallons of water.) We all live and learn though.

Welcome to Fishlore, by the way.

COBettaCouple

welcome to fishlore!

I'd say the odds are less than 50/50 of a happy tank with a Betta and an ADF, but it can work out sometimes. A better tankmate for a Betta would be a bottom feeder - Bettas mostly get along with Otos and Corys. If you got a 10g tank, you could get a trio of either (Corys are hardier fish and better for a first tank). A 5g would make it hard to add tankmates with a Betta, but 2 otos and a female betta would make a slightly overstocked tank that could be maintained with extra water changes and cleaning.

Be sure to cycle the tank before adding the otos or corys trio.
http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
While the tank is cycling, you can learn about the fish you're going to be putting in there so that you can setup the tank the best for the fish. (BTW: Don't waste money on products like "cycle" that claim to speed up the cycle. They don't. BioSpira is the 1 product that does, but isn't easy to find since it's got a short shelf life and has to be refrigerated.)

After they're in, it would be best if you could give them 3 weeks before adding a Betta. That will let you see if they brought home anything from the store.

I would recommend the API master freshwater kit for testing, a hydor theo 50w heater and an air pump with flexible bubble wand (Bettas & Corys especially love to play in bubbles).
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/shop.cfm?c=3578 - all those can be bought at this online store, where we get most of our supplies.

We use flat glass marbles for our substrata. Bettas like to drag their fins on the bottom and corys have sensitive barbells that make the marbles good for them. Be sure any plants you get are live or silk and any decorations have no rough spots inside or outside that would tear a betta's fins. (If it would tear pantyhose, it would tear the fins.) The biggest problem most Betta owners deal with is fin rot and torn fins very often lead to fin rot.

If you can, order Vita-Chem along with the other supplies if you order from DFS. Vita-Chem is great for healing fins and for general fish health. We add it daily to all the tanks.

Don't let it overwhelm you if it seems like a lot. It's just a step at a time and there's so many people here to help you out so that your first tank goes better than a lot of ours did.

susitna-flower

Welcome to fishlore......As far as tanks go, the bigger the better!

I just also caution you to let your tank fully cycle before adding fish. You can use ammonia, a chunk of salmon, or fish food twice a day, but you do need that API Master test kit, you then will know when the cycle is finished. At that point you can do a 50% water change and add your fish. Good Luck and see you around the forum.

Neville

Hey Ninja WELCOME TO FISHLORE!!!!!!!!!

a betta will be fine in a 5 Gallon tank, i don't know much about frogs but as u r a beginer i would not recommend frogs, they require extra maintenance.

lyndatu

Welcome back to the madness of fish world! Welcome to Fishlore.com!

Being crazy over fishkeeping is always the right thing to do. I'm sure you'll experience its joys and wonders. Sorry about your previous water pets.

A 10 gallon tank is good, but a 20 gallon tank is really the best way to go. As a beginner, you should have at least 20 gallons because the bigger the tank, the easier to maintain. Tank sizes lower than 20 gallons are usually very difficult to handle and only for experienced fishkeepers and professionals. 20 gallons is perfect for beginners and most beginners often mistake that a smaller tank is easier to maintain. They thought wrong. You should get at least 20 gallons, but of course, the bigger the better, but 20 gallons it is! Oh, wait, you said you're going to keep only a betta and a frog? Well then, 10 gallons should be fine. (but, as always, the bigger the better!)

An invert, like a shrimp or a snail, would make a nice and interesting addition to your tank.

Sorry but I also have the same problem in finding a cheap yet good test kit. Too expensive! But my opinion is that you should get the ones that test: ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. It may be pricey, but it's quite a must for a healthy aquarium.

Good luck!

oneninjamonkey

The amount of responses is awesome thanks guys!

Yeah the pacus did require intense cleaning but I don't think my parents knew a lot about them. They were pretty smart though, would follow your finger on the tank and stuff, and they seemed happy.

I'd love to do a larger tank it's just a money issue, but I know at least three teachers in my high school with retired fish tanks so maybe I can bug them for one of theirs.Otherwise I think I'm pretty much decided that I'll just have to suck it up and save up until I've got enough for a 10 gallon.

So I guess I'll end up going for the betta and frog and hope for the best. I really want the tank to be entertaining most of all and strange animals and large(r) fish really have the most appeal to me. If you can think of any fish that stand out as entertainers or clowns please share. :-)

0morrokh

If you decide to try it you should add the frog to the tank first and then the betta. If you get the betta first he'll think it's his territory and attack anything else you add later. Also realize that you may end up with an aggressive betta who attacks the frog, in which case you have several options-return the frog, set up a new tank for the frog, or get a tank divider and divide the tank.

With just a betta and a frog you have more room in a 10gal...you could get some small cories or some otos if you want. Again they need to be added to the tank before the betta. The little catfish are definately entertaining imo.

Also do you know about the nitrogen cycle?

oneninjamonkey

wow i was just about to ask which fish should be going in first but you've managed to read my mind! I've got a pretty good understanding of the nitrogen cycle from other's links. It stinks to wait so long since I'm so eager but it's alright because while I have money for an aquarium it might take a bit longer to get the fishys. :-) With Christmas rolling around I should have enough for a ten or a twenty if i play my cards right.

0morrokh

Yeah I hate waiting while tanks cycle but it's worth it...better than throwing fish in and them all dying.

COBettaCouple

Check craigslist and any local aquarium clubs.. yard sales too.

After the tank is cycled, I'd put the frog in and give him at least a few days before adding the Betta to help the Betta feel less territorial and more accepting of the frog.

The Cory cats that I mentioned in an earlier post are definitely clowns and a few of them can get pretty playful at times. They'd also help with cleaning up leftover food. I think you could still put 2 in with a Betta and ADF in a 10g tank, but that might be pushing it on the Betta being happy and the more corys, the more fun they are.

I think you're planning well and wish you the best on your tank.. are you thinking about an albino ADF or a regular one?

oneninjamonkey

So a friend of mine just gave me her 5 gallon tank. What can I do with the it? I think the frog and the betta will work but will there be any room for a cory? I figured probably not but you know more than me.

0morrokh

I would just do the Betta and the ADF (though realize there's less chance of the combo working in a smaller tank). Make sure you have a lot of hiding places in the tank for the frog to get away from the Betta. Cories need to be kept in groups so there isn't enough room for several cories plus the betta and frog.

King_Snuggles

Im new also but I have had my tank set up (nitrogen cycled) for about a week. The Corys love the buble wand, it fills up almost my whole back wall with bubles and the are alwayse playing in it. I just got a beta today and have 2 Dwarf frogs in the tank so far they are doing ok. Make sure you get the Dwarf frogs and not the clawed (you can tell, Clawed frogs, their front feet are unwebbed, and Dwarf frogs front feet are).
I used fish food and it really made the nitrogen cycle tons faster to set up.
O and from what i have seen you really need to have two corys they are alwayse together in my tank.

COBettaCouple

With a 5g tank, I'd either go with a Betta or a couple of ADFs. If you want to try an ADF & Betta, have a backup plan in case you need to take the ADF out fast. It can work sometimes, but like Omorrokh mentioned the odds are lower in a 5g.

oneninjamonkey

So I got the minibow 5 from my friend now. (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/produ...uct_id=3635107)
What are the first steps to getting my aquarium off the ground? I know it needs to be cleaned. So just soap and water so I don't leave detergents in the water?
Once it's cleaned I get started on the nitrogen cycle. I'll be using the fish food method since she also gave me some fish flakes. How often do i do this? Do I need to buy something to monitor nitrogen/nitrate etc. levels with?
Last question, How should I go about filling the aquarium? I mean I'm real new to this so what should I look for in plants to put in it and how do you best reccomend for me to decorate a tank for a ADF and a beta?

EDIT: ALSO! Do I need to buy a heater for this thing?

Coryd55

NO! Dont use soap on the inside. Just use warm water and scrub it well. That should work. If you clean the outside and use windex spray it on the rag not on the glass....just FYI. Buy a Freshwater test kit. The Master API Freshwater Test Kit is the most recommended(its what I use personally).
Filling:
For plants you can either get real or fake. Most people prefer real but really its whatever you like. You couldnt put to much in a 5 gallon anyway so whatever you want really. I'm not sure about species specific preferences for the betta or ADF so cant help you there.

Yes you need a heater! =)

Kevin

soap is the worst possible thing to clean with...it will ruin your tank!
dont add objects with sharp edges, as betta's fins tear very easily, and they will likely get finrot from a tear...i pile of smooth rocks would do okay, also a live plant called java fern would look cool
yes, you will need a heater for a betta, they like the temp at 79-81F, i would reccommend a 50w VisiTherm Stealth (petco/petsmart carries them)

to get the heater at a lower price, you can go to the stores website, print out the online price, it will be alot cheaper, take it in to the store and ask them to match their online price...you will get it for around $15 cheaper

KittieKat

[quote=oneninjamonkey;297440]I'd love to keep a betta and an african dwarf frog together. I think frogs are cute and I think they'd make quite the odd couple.QUOTE]

i had a frog and with my bettas and never had a problem.. so if u had the room and the time go for it! just be sure to feed the froggie either thawed blood worms or live black worms..!! be tricky because bettas love them too!

oneninjamonkey

Well I made my first fishy investment today. 55 dollars YIKES!

I basically just got the testing kit, the api one everyone has been suggesting and paid full price because the pet store wouldn't price match and no one else in the area carried it. Oh well you win some and you lose some. I also got some nifty gravel, a chlorine treatment thing, filter, and a fish scooper. The only thing i didnt manage to get was a heater because walmart didn't sell any that you could actually set the heat with and the pet store didn't have any the right size. The LFS worker said not to worry that the beta would be fine and I know you guys disagree but do you think survive until I find one? I honestly would like to not have to spend the money unless you guys think its a big priority. With any luck I'll be able to get the frog by tomorrow so he can settle in before I get the fish!

btw I think walmart's fish section blows. At least at my walmart its terrible!

EDIT: Even if the heater willbe a serious problem will it be one for the frog? cause hes going to be the first in habitant. Also how often will i have to do water changes and what kind of regular maintenance will be needed?

COBettaCouple

All Walmarts are terrible. The one back in my hometown had about 2 feet of one side of an aisle for all the fish supplies including tanks.

Your tank needs at least a few weeks to cycle.. so maybe you could do an order online for a good heater (and other stuff if you wanted) and have it in place before adding any fish. I wouldn't get the frog even until it's cycled. Then give him 2-3 days in the tank before adding fish.

A Betta really is a poor community fish though. The personality and love of interacting with people that makes them such great fish really gets squashed in a community tank and at least half the time the results are dead fish.

Bettas can survive without a heater, but the colder water makes them easy targets for disease and they get more & more lethargic.

oneninjamonkey

can i just get one of the ones that help warm the water but dont neccesarily have a thermostat?

oneninjamonkey

So today I went out and found a good heater! Got that set up and a normal thermometer and let the tank get up to about 78 and added my new ADF!

I know :-(

I should have let the tank cycle and I'm super sorry but I couldn't help myself!!

Anyway I think he's doing alright he seems to just be sitting and hiding but I did watch him go up for air once and I thought it was pretty cute for a frog :-P

I attached a couple of pictures of him and the set up. As always any recommendations are great!!

He seems to be hard to feed. Ive got the freeze dried blood worms but he wont eat any of them :-( I heard to try to use a turkey baster and blast them near his mouth but I dont have one yet. Any other suggestions?

BTW his name is Harold Hill Hopper :-)
(The Music Man with a twist thanks to my girlfriend)

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COBettaCouple

Your ADF will do better while the tank cycles if you use "Prime" to treat the water with. Is that a 5g minibow? What brand & watts heater did you get?

If you're using freeze dried worms, you might want to feed them after they've soaked in a little dish of tank water first.. better for his digestive system. It's not uncommon for them to be stressed from the move to a tank and all, so that could be the reason for him not eating.

oneninjamonkey

I'm using a product very similar to prime but under the brand name of the lfs. Yes, its a 5G and I got a 25 watt heater for it I have the tank at 78 cause that's the temp i plan on keeping when i get the beta is that a good temp? Oh and the brand is slimtech, it was really my only option heater wise but i hope its good anyhow.

It doesnt take long to get attached to these little guys!

angelfish220

That is about the temperature of my sister's betta's tank and he is fine. If you wanted a playful personable fish you got the right one! I can't wait ontill you get it, you'll love it! My sis's betta will only let her feed it When you get it post a pic!

oneninjamonkey

So I don't know. I guess I can't complain too much, but for the most part my frog just kind of lays there. I mean he's a frog I'm not asking him to sing and dance, I just thought maybe, i dunno he'd swim around a bit?

Is he just getting comfortable in the tank still? Or do your frogs just kind of lay around all day?

It's all good. I guess If i were in a tank my actions wouldn't seem very entertaining either :-(

Will a bubble wand excite him? Or just scare him?

COBettaCouple

what are the water parameters at?

oneninjamonkey

They're all normal at the moment but I'm sure It will start cycling soon enough. I guess that does make sense that he might be a bit lethargic going through that stress. Thanks.

angelfish220

if you sit and watch him for a while I bet that you'll notice small characteristics that you never noticed. that's why I like fish so much you have to put work into the relationship