MagpieTear

What is the general consensus here at Fishlore on Undergravel filters with a powerhead on a stick (tube)?

I've had my 55 freshwater set up with a pair of undergravels and a HOB Aqua-clear for the better part of 16 years now, my chemistry is rarely off, even when I'm less mindful of the tank (summer motorcycling season). But after looking through the members tank section and doing a quick search, it seems undergravels are viewed in a less than favorable light here. Why? Or am I imagining the bias?

Butterfly

For myself the turning point was when I took the UGF out of my 29G and found all the gunk underneath. I decided right then that couldn't be good. The UGF was good in it's day but there are better/more convenient ways to filter a tank now.
Carol

MagpieTear

Without the ugf, do you rely on simple siphoning to remove the sediment and detritus that does go down into the gravel? And will a single HOB filter provide enough circulation/oxygenation?

Not trying to be difficult here, but to open up possibilities in the arrangement of the tank without breaking the bank for some elaborate system to replace something simple and cheap.

sirdarksol

The UGF with a powerhead is a decent setup, but you've got to make sure you're vacuuming the gravel. Otherwise, you get a buildup of gunk and potential anaerobic areas, which could grow nasty bacteria. If one of these pockets then opens to the rest of the tank, they can poison the tank.

Dino

I also vote nay.

For just a little bit more, get a decent over the side filter.

About a 1/4 down this page are Millenium 3000's ( $29.95), they would be excellent filtration for a 55.

http://www.kensfish.com/POWERFILTERS2.html

Isabella

I never used any UG filters so maybe I am not qualified to give any opinions about them. But from reading about how they work alone, I'd never get an UG filter, never. I can't imagine how a filter, which sucks the water through the gravel, can ever be an effective one. Not to mention you can't clean your gravel properly with a filter like that. And what if it breaks? Then you have do tear down the whole tank just to take out the filter - this is ridiculous in my opinion. And even if you just want to clean the filter, you have to take your tank apart. All of this sounds like more headaches and troubles to me, rather than any benefits at all. I'd avoid filters like that at any cost.

MagpieTear

I just went through the articles and read the ugf writeup, I guess my hesitation is I've relied on the extra flow and current and I'm hesitant to ditch the powerheads and the system I've been comfortable with all these years. Just double checked, my HOB is an Aquaclear 70 (the body is old enough it says 300 on the lid, replaced the motor once.)

I'd never rely on strictly an undergravel, or even consider it as the primary system, that would be silly, but to have it as a secondary system made perfect sense to me. I think my fear is relying on strictly a biological system (no plugs, motors or things I can tinker with or even touch and see) for the substrate. Guess it's time for me to let go of the old and try something new. Oldthinkers unbellyfeel new tech.

Pardon me while I go research this some more...

sirdarksol

With powerheads, I wouldn't worry too much about the filter going bad. I agree with you, it's not a good idea as a primary, but because of its simplicity, it is a solid backup, and a good addition for biological and mechanical filtration. There is nearly nothing in the filter that can break. The frames for the UGFs are pretty stable, so the part that's likely to stop working is the powerhead, which is more easily replaced.
I've got a small UGF adding filtration for my wife's mollies' tank, and I also have a UGF with airstones in my first tank. (I haven't been able to afford powerheads for that one, yet.) Aside from a panic that was pretty much unwarranted, I haven't had any problems.

Gozer_1

I use a UGF in my 150 with powerheads as well as a canister. I'm considering removing it next time I break down the tank. I'm just tired of having to vacuum the gravel constantly. You have to clean it out every few days. At least once a week. More is better. I don't know. I'd like to be able to put the powerheads in better locations too. I don't have any other complaints about them though. Not much can go wrong and I'm a big believer in biological filtration. I can get better biofiltering in a canister though. All in all, the UGF had it's day. It's day is over. There are better options these days.

MagpieTear

So Gozer, if I'm reading your post correctly, you are planning on keeping the powerheads even after you ditch the UGF. What are you going to do with the powerheads if they're not on the UGF tube? Is it feasable to cap the bottom of one of those tubes, slot the side of it just above the gravel line as an inlet to establish a pull from the lower end of the tank and have the exhaust in the upper layer? The HOB grabs from the center and exhausts right above that which sets up a great circulation at that end of the tank, but there's 40" of length that would still need to be addressed.

Forgive all my questions, even though I've had this tank set up for many years, I never thought outside the initial setup that was recommended to me when I brought it home. For whatever reason, now I'm wanting to go to something different and make it a better system, but not break the bank on new equipment.

Neville

i have undergravel filter in my 10g, i also had undergravels in my 75 g.

Peterpiper

Here is the way I see it... Why have a filter that holds the gunk in the aquarium, when you can have a filter that holds the gunk outside the aquarium..

sirdarksol

Powerheads can be attached to a pre-filter (in fact, the one I bought came with one). This is just a sponge that attaches to the input of the powerhead. The water being sucked through the sponge is affected in much the same way as what happens with the UGF. My only complaint about the pre-filters is that the sponges are really ugly.

MagpieTear

Well, is it ugly enough to offset the ugliness of the powerhead itself?

timg

I for one swear by UGF filtration. I use it in most of my tanks and it's just about the most stable and easily maintained system around IMO. I use air to run them and vacuum the gravel every week as normal. Once every three months or so, I dig out the wet/dry vacuum, connect it to the risers and clean the UGF. It only takes a couple of minutes and they never give any problems.

If I relied on other forms of filters, I am sure that I would have serious problems with the overcrowding I have at the moment. The beauty of UGF is that with the addition of an additional riser, you can double the effectiveness of it, something that no other filter that I know of has the ability to do.

At the moment, I have a 200 gallon system with around 40 adults and 500+ fry, all being filtered by two 4' UGF's and the aquaponics garden. The water conditions remain stable even with the horrendously overstocked situation. I would have to spend a great deal of money to filter this system any other way this effectively.

saying that, this is only my opinion, and there are down-sides to UGF if you don't take care of them properly. Gas buildup has already been mentioned, but I hasten to add that this happens with any substrate, not just UGF. It is important to clean the substrate anyway!

Gozer_1

That's not a bad idea. My canister draws from the bottom but only in one corner. Maybe I'll try that with one of the powerheads and riser tubes. In all reality I have 4 powerheads running my UGF so there is a lot of flow through it. I don't really get much gunk underneath the plates. I can see the bottom of my tank from inside my stand so I can see if there is build up. Since I vacuum my gravel so regularly the build up isn't truly a concern for me. The reason for getting rid of it is it's unnecessary in my setup. I do like having the powerheads to move water. With them I have about 9X per hour circulation. I like to have around 9 or 10 in my fresh tanks. Also, I'd like to be able to use the venturi option to get some air. Attached to the risers they can't draw air. The depth is too deep for them. I have a deep water air pump but it didn't last long pushing air that deep.
Anyway it won't be for several months if I do decide to remove it. It really depends on how ambitious I get in cleanning it out. I guess we'll see when I get there.

MagpieTear

Well, I yanked the UGF yesterday. It has been in place since 1991. I had initially planned on doing only one half per Dino's suggestion in another thread, but I found so little gunk under there that the clouding of the water was at a minimum. I guess between reversing the powerhead flow and Tim's Shop-vac trick, the accumulated goo really never accumulated.

The only spots that were nasty were under the field stones, as soon as I lifted them there were little clouds of muck, so those areas were vacuumed thoroughly. I ended up dropping 2 bags of Eco-complete in with the gravel to offset the loss of depth and to give my micro swords a finer substrate to latch onto. But I'll be darned if I can get my center two stones to stack just right again...

I'm also considering ditching most of my Java Moss, as I said before, the stuff is like dog hair, it ends up everywhere but where you want it. Mudhog, you'll be getting some moss with your fern plantlets once they grow out a bit bigger, most of them have 3/4" leave right now, I'll pack them up once they hit about 1 1/2 or 2"

The only snag I've hit is my 305 canister filter is to tall to fit under the shelf the tank is on. I'm going to have to get very creative in placing it.

Gozer_1

I have the same problem with my XP3 canister. It barely fits under my tank. I haven't pulled the UGF from the big tank yet but have decided I will in Spring.

I'm trying out the capped riser tube on a powerhead idea you had on my 55 reef. I LOVE IT. What a great idea. The ZooMed Powersweep comes with a small section of tube that has a cap. I pulled it out and stuck it on to a longer tube and drilled holes around the base. Helps pull water through my live rocks. Thanks for the idea.