For the moderators...

[agabr123]

http://www.fishlore.com/SmallTank.htm

could one (or more) of the moderators/powers that be please consider editing this article?

"Let the aquarium cycle first with a hardy fish like the zebra danio or even fishless."

I don't know that this necessarily sends a good message to new aquarists, and IMO contradicts what most of the advice given by everyone would say. Perhaps the advice given on this article would be more appropriate.

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

"Starting The nitrogen cycle With Fish
This is not the preferred way to get the nitrogen cycle started because the fish are being exposed to ammonia and nitrites during this process. Many fish can not and will not make it through the cycling process. Often times the fish become stressed and fish disease starts to break out. I wonder what percentage of disease is caused by the cycling of new aquariums?

Certain species are hardier than others and seem to tolerate the start-up cycle better than others. For freshwater tanks, the zebra danio is a very hardy fish that many use to get the nitrogen cycle started. For saltwater tanks, some have reported success using damselfish to get the process started. Again, using fish to cycle is not a good idea and you may be throwing your money (on dead fish) out the window. There is a better way. Read on, young grasshopper."

Thanks,

Alex

[sirdarksol]

The articles were not written by anyone who's currently on Fishlore, so we can't edit them.
I can talk with Mike about completely re-writing that one, though.

[Lucy]

If that's possible, it would be helpful to omit the product Cycle from "Speeding Up the Cycling Process" section.
I think enough of our members have proven that it can actually prolong the natural cycling process.

[inuyasha_lover_21]

I was about to ask if the product "cycle" could be removed.

[Drew 43920]

Originally Posted by sirdarksol

The articles were not written by anyone who's currently on Fishlore, so we can't edit them.

With all due respect..................
Why can't you edit them. They are on our site .
Drew

[sirdarksol]

Originally Posted by Drew 43920

With all due respect..................
Why can't you edit them. They are on our site .
Drew

If what I was told was right about them, they are not our articles. Mike has been given permission to post them as-is. He has not been given permission to edit them, as far as I know. To do so would be unethical and, depending on circumstances, potentially illegal.

I could be wrong about the nature of the articles, of course, but if I'm right about it, it would be much simpler in the long run to re-write the couple of articles rather than edit them.

[inuyasha_lover_21]

sirdarksol your right. They are not our articles.

[Lucy]

There was some question about that particular page at one point....asking about adding or editing to the fish profiles found on the right.
If I remember correctly, Mike said we couldn't edit them. I forget why.

[inuyasha_lover_21]

What if someone was to write there own nitrogen cycle article? Someone must have a bit of time to do it?

[KyWildFish]

Not to sound unethical, but I have used fish to cycle a tank with no adverse effects to the livestock. I used danios and they have shown the same coloration ad behavior throughout the cycle. The only thing I found to be bad about it was the length of time it took to complete the cycle with such small waste producers.
The article doesn't need to omit the use of fish as a cycling agent for the big reason that so many people eventually find there way to this site because of advise to do so. A revised article explaining how someone who has started a fish cycle can make the process safest for the fish should be used, instead of omission all together. If there is no information on how to take care of the problem we see almost everyday, then we will continue to see posts about people in this kind of trouble.
Having done a fish cycle and having no losses myself, I would be glad to lend my time to writing an article about how to maintain a fish cycle that might have already been started through bad advise. I am sure others could probably do this as well.

[Lucy]

I agree, to leave out it out completely wouldn't be a good idea. A lot of people end of cycling with fish because of lack of knowledge. Not advising them on how to get through it would do a disservice to those people. Probably just some rewording would be in order.

[agabr123]

I completely agree, however I think that that should perhaps be something separate, such as a completely separate article on how to get through the cycle if you have already gotten fish and put them in, although that isn't recommended.

I don't know how this would work, but how about writing new articles with input from the members? For example, one of the moderators or mike could ask people for suggestions about writing a new article on cycling with fish if you have to or the nitrogen cycle or tank start up. I think that that may be a more comprehensive (if work intensive) way to cover everything and make sure that new people have the best information possible.

[sirdarksol]

Originally Posted by inuyasha_lover_21

What if someone was to write there own nitrogen cycle article? Someone must have a bit of time to do it?

That's what I'm asking Mike about. He usually checks in during the evenings.

Edit: As far as cycling with fish, I think we should include the info, with the simple caveat that most people don't recommend it. It's how I presented the info in my "Fish Keeping for Beginners" articles.

[Fish Addict]

How bout a contest for whoever can make the best, clearest article on the cycling process? I'm sure people would do that, and Mike or another moderator could choose one or a few articles...

[Alessa]

I have an article - it is almost done - on cycling. Maybe it could help?

[Drew 43920]

Originally Posted by inuyasha_lover_21

sirdarksol your right. They are not our articles.

With all due respect. Did you read them ?
Drew

[Butterfly]

Go here http://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/fe...tml#post492437
And suggest that as a new article
Carol

[Alasse]

I'm with KyWildFish.

I cycle all my tanks with fish for years, and it is not from a lack of knowledge, havent lost any, it can be done with no stress and no losses, providing it is done properly. Instead of omitting it from the article, it should be explained the proper way to do it.

[sirdarksol]

Okay, to answer several random posts:
Drew, where precisely are you coming from? Is there a reason that you think that, if InuYasha had read them, he would believe that these articles are actually the property of Fishlore?

Second, I seem to have opened a can of worms for Mike that I shouldn't have opened. I didn't want to make this into a big thing. This is something that may never be changed. In the end, it's up to Mike whether or not any of the articles get changed.

As far as cycling with fish, as I said, I think it should be included, but I also think that it should be strongly suggested against. There is no way to eliminate stress from cycling with fish, as it exposes fish to ammonia, which stresses them out. I see no reason to actively suggest that people do things this way.
However, it is a good idea to include information on how to cycle a tank to which fish have already been added.

[Drew 43920]

Originally Posted by sirdarksol

Okay, to answer several random posts:
Drew, where precisely are you coming from? Is there a reason that you think that, if InuYasha had read them, he would believe that these articles are actually the property of Fishlore?

*******************************
I am from 43920. I am a very step by step person. The issue was "did posted articles reflect views of site ?" My logical question was " did moderators read posted articles ?"
No offense intended.

[Lucy]

Originally Posted by Drew 43920

I am from 43920.

Originally Posted by Drew 43920

did moderators read posted articles

I'm guessing most of us mods have read the articles which were written before several of us even became mods.
As SDS pointed out we do not have permission nor the power to edit them.

I believe any further discussion regarding this topic will be repetitious and it's taking a turn and a tone I do not care for.

We will wait and see what Mike has to say.

[agabr123]

I wasn't suggesting that any has not done an excellent job on the site, and this was merely intended for the MODERATORS to look over as well as merely a slight edit, not an overhaul of the entire article section. Unfortunately, people are taking this thread FAR beyond what I intended, which was quite literally only for the moderators/mike to take a look at the article and act as they saw fit in terms of whether or not to edit(if possible), rewrite, or do nothing at all.

My question had absolutely nothing to do with who had read them or not or at what times, only that that is what the article states and I personally believe that it contradicts what most of us would say and what most (if not all) of the moderators would advise.

I completely understand that many people that come to this site already have fish in a tank that is not cycled due to a lack of knowledge, but advocating that a zebra danio be used to cycle a tank is not the advice they should be given (i.e. that putting in different fish would somehow be better for them) nor is it the advice that they would be given on the forum.

My apologies to the moderators and Mike if I opened up a can of worms, but this was truly not what I intended to happen.

[agabr123]

Also, the one that I am talking about is NOT the article on the nitrogen cycle at all! IMO, the article written on the nitrogen cycle takes a MUCH better approach to cycling with fish (as I specifically put in the first post). Before criticizing, please at least read the correct article. This article is the one on setting up a "small tropical fish tank" and only mentions it in one line of the article.

[Mike]

Good points all around - the articles that we can't/shouldn't edit are the ones listing aquarticles as the source. We can put a note at the bottom of the articles though. I'll update the small tank setup article to talk more about the benefits of cycling fishless too.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[agabr123]

Thanks for clarifying, Mike, and my apologies again if I started a big controversy...

[sirdarksol]

Originally Posted by agabr123

Thanks for clarifying, Mike, and my apologies again if I started a big controversy...

You didn't start a controversy. In hindsight, I should probably have just said "We'll talk to Mike about it," but then again, I didn't know how this was going to turn out, either.

You brought up an excellent point that should be looked at.

And... thank you Mike, for attending to this.