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Old November 13th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Gymnogeophagus Norte and then Blue neon?

I did it thanks all!
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kacie is offline  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Moderator
 
Ooohhh, he's pretty. A type of geo?
bolivianbaby is offline  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
I am tring to figure out if the first one is a different species than the second. Gymnogeophagus Norte and then Blue neon.
kacie is offline  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Moderator
 
They're gorgeous!
bolivianbaby is offline  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Moderator
 
He's a beauty Kacie. glad you figured it out.

Do you want me to move part of this thread to the ID forum?
You'll get more resonses there
Lucy is online now  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Thank you that would be awesome
kacie is offline  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Moderator
 
Your welcome!
Lucy is online now  
Old November 13th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
Hey Kacie

I sent you a pm and at the time I didn't see this post only the one photo you had uploaded to the gallery. After seeing these pics here is what I think.

Although both pictures resemble sp. Norte more so than Blue Neon here are some differences I notice between the two pictures.
All of these are based on comparing the two fish in question, Norte vs. Blue Neon.

Pic #1 Very dark/distinct black line through eye goes with the blue neon.
Blue spangling above and behind the eye is more noticable in Blue Neon.
However the fish is lacking the overall color of a Blue Neon, they usually show the blues and reds more more pronounced that do the Norte.

Pic #2 Blue spangling does not appear to go above the back of the eye, which is normally the case in Norte. It does somewhat but is very faint.
Black stripe running through the eye is very faint, normal in Norte.
More yellow coloring inbetween the lips and eye area of the cheek, this will appear in Norte more so than Blue Neon.
And the overall color is dull compared to pic1.

These are all just my opinion on comparing these two pictures side by side, if you took two more pics of the same fish and they showed slightly different colors and or shades I may think differently. But with what you have that is what I notice.

The main problem I am having is both fish, Norte and Blue Neon, in their tail fin the color pattern will show up in stripe form, meaning the pattern they display from the different colors makes the tail appear to be stripped. Now in pic #2 the tail looks like it has red borders with faint blue and yellow stripes, this is what we should see. Now in pic #1 the tail looks to be a very faint yellow with blue spots. This is where the main difference is, which I can't figure out why.


Here are two other Gymnogeophagus species just to clearly show what I mean by a spotted pattern tail and a stripped pattern tail.

Here is Gymnogeophagus cf. Gymnogenys which clearly shows a spotted tail pattern.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

And here is Gymnogeophagus Labiatus which clearly shows a stripped tail pattern.
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.


And here is a pic of one of my Gymnogeophagus n. sp. Blue Neon. Before I said the fish in your pics were showing traits that made me lean toward one species or the other. Like Blue Neons normally have the darker line running through the eye. Notice this fish has a very faint line through the eye, which goes against why I said what I thought yours may be, this is why this group is so confusing you may notice very faint differences from one picture to the next which may make you sway a different way. The Norte and Blue Neons are both in the "Rhabdotus" Group and are very hard to tell apart.
I am 100% sure this is a Blue Neon as it was imported to Canada from Felipe Cantera who is the main guy not only in collecting and naming Gymnogeophagus species but he is also the only person to export Gymno's out of Uruguay.
Click the image to open in full size.
Notice the stripped tail pattern.

With your fish in pic #1 because of the spotted tail pattern I would actually lean more towards Gymnogeophagus n. sp. "Sequeira", rather than either Norte or Blue Neon. Although this to would be nothing more than a guess I must say. The only way to know for sure would be to get ahold of the person you got the fish from and hope to trace back where they originally came from.

Sorry for the long winded post, just figured I would put all my thoughts and the things I noticed at once.

Brian
btate617 is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Moderator
 
Beautiful fish Kacie! Thanks for sharing with us!
Ken
aquarist48 is online now  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Thank you Brian. I got them from Aquabid and since receiving the fish the seller hasn't responded to any further questions. I could try again but am doubtful. I will clean the water streaks and spots off of my tank and take more pictures tonight when the lights are on in the tank. My fish don't really look like yours. The body shape seems different. My fish seem skinny compared to yours. Also my big male has trailers on his tail fin. My main reason for starting this new discussion was one of the fish has very different colors than the others but it is so far not showing up in the pictures.

Last edited by kacie; November 14th, 2009 at 07:59 AM.
kacie is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Kacie they are gorgeous fish!!
I love earth eaters .
Diggly is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Thanks Diggly, I wish I had some of those tapajos of yours. Kacie
kacie is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Another picture of my fish showing more color.
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kacie is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Keeper
 
Those are so gorgeous, Maybe we can get them to breed and swap fish haha.

Its a shame its not safe to send them to america from here or I would send you some if my breed.
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Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
The fish are looking good Kacie. I can't figure out why only the one is showing decent color though. Even when you have several of these fish in the same tank they will all color up nicely, unlike say Africans where only the dominant male will color up.

One possibility could be the cool down period which I know you know about from a previous post. But how big were the fish when you got them? I am wondering if they either missed a cool down or maybe had a cool down but it wasn't either long enough and or cool enough. The biggest thing you will notice with Gymno's, besides them not living as long as they should, if they don't get a proper cool down they will not show their colors to their full potential. Maybe this is a possibility?

The one fish is definitely different. Also like I said the fish may look differently each time you take a new pic, like the case with the last two sets you posted, makes it tough to figure out. It bugged me last night and I spent the better part of an hour looking for every single species of Gymno I could find trying to narrow it down. I have also emailed Felipe asking his opinion and he usually responds quickly unless he is out of town on a collecting trip.

The problem right now is there are so many new Gymno's being found that many don't have scientific names, many times you will see something like Gymnogeophagus sp. "------". The last part may be a town name, or a river system, or a bridge etc. of the area they were collected in or near. Right now from what I can gather there are 20 discribed species, where as in February this year there were only 11, so you can see how fast they are not only finding them but trying to keep them straight by naming them. And more have been found that have yet to be named....

So here is a list I have come up with, these first ones have been discribed.

Gymnogeophagus.......
australis, balzanii, caaguazuensis, gymnogenys, labiatus, meridionalis, rhabdotus, sp. 'blue lips', sp. 'blue neon', sp. 'catalancito', sp. 'cuña pirú', sp. 'formosa', sp. 'high dorsal', sp. 'la pedrera', sp. 'rosario', sp. 'verna', tiraparae, che, lacustris, setequedas.

With the Gymnogeophagus there seems to be 2 groups they be thrown into, either the Gymnogenys Group or the Rhabdotus Group. The Gymnogenys being the slender long fish like the two I posted, G. Gymnogeny and G. Labiatus. And the Rhabdotus being the "tall" bodied fish like the Norte and Blue Neon. Yours are for sure in the Rhabdotus grouping. From the above list of described species the only choices for your fish could be meridionalis, rhabdotus, sp. 'blue neon', sp. 'high dorsal', sp. 'verna'.
Also sp. Norte is not used anymore it seems rather than calling that fish (ex-Meridionalis) Gymnogeophagus n. sp. Norte--this is the old name for Norte--- now they are calling the same fish simple Gymnogeophagus Meridionalis. (Again as this is what they first called this fish)

Here is also a list of all the fish that have been collected in the Rhabdotus Grouping, although all of these may not yet have been given a scientific name.

G. rhabdotus "Santiago"
G. rhabdotus "Convento"
G. cf. rhabdotus "Rincon"
G. cf. rhabdotus "Frayle Muerto"
G. rhabdotus "33"
G. cf. rhabdotus "Paso Uturbey"
G. cf. rhabdotus "Rivera"
G. meridionalis "Rio Negro"
G. n.sp. "Blue Neon"
G. n.sp. "High Dorsal West"
G. n.sp. "High Dorsal North"
G. n.sp. "Sequeira"
G. n.sp. "Centro"
G. n.sp. "Sur"
G. n.sp. "Sarandi"
G. n.sp. "Paso Pache II"
G. n.sp. "Aguas Blancas II"
G. n.sp. "Colonia"
G. n.sp. "Catalan"
G. n.sp. "3 Cruces II"
G. n.sp. "Cuaro II"
G. n.sp. "Rio Yi"

As you can see most are named for where they were found.

We may never know what you have for sure, other than a cool fish, but if you keep posting different pictures when they show different colors and as they grow I will keep looking. Obviously this is my favorite group of fish so I am interested in finding out what they are also.

Brian
btate617 is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Brian, thank you so much for your interest. I love these fish too. I got them less than a year ago and am now trying to bring them down into a cooling period. They had a short cool down last year but now I've got them in my basement. My house is pretty tight and insulated so I don't know how cold it will get down there... Plus I've got to solve my plants and hot lights problem.
kacie is offline  
Old November 14th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Hi, I finally got some good pictures! So now you can see my big pretty male, his two drab females (one a little beat up) and the oddball (I call him Bluey). Notice the three from the first picture have more spots in the tail than "Bluey". His tail is striped. he is darker and bluer and less tall bodied and spanglier. ID any clearer Brian?

Thanks for looking everyone,
Kacie
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File Type: jpg rsz_dsc_0054.jpg (631.9 KB, 11 views)
kacie is offline  
Old November 16th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
Nice pics!

The second pic sure looks like a "Norte".
And the last one looks like a poorly, just not colored up not knocking the fish, Blue Neon. Notice how much blue and red, especially blue is in the pectoral fin. But it also has a lot of yellow in the tail which is normal of the Norte.

I wonder if it would be possible to seperate the fish and let them color up without the dominant fish playing such a big role. Another thing that was common with these two species is people would buy them and without knowing, because of how similiar they are, they would crossbreed. Sucks the guy won't respond to your questions.

Either way they are looking good, hopefully some more time will help.

Brian
btate617 is offline  
Old November 16th, 2009  
Fish Addict
 
Yes I agree Brian. You were right about the Norte. My girls colored up when they spawned last spring but now are not feeling so bold, but never anything to compare to the male. The reason I never thought of the blue one as a different species is because he has a deformed fin (you can see in the picture how it is folded down) I just assumed he had other problems coloring up. But he is not yellow in the body at all. Maybe a crossbreed or a runt blue neon?
Kacie
kacie is offline  
Old November 16th, 2009  
Fish Mentor
 
Me being right won't happen often so look out.

Could be a cross of the two, like I said many people confuse the two species and keep them together. You can keep many Gymno's together like say a mouthbrooding group and an egg layer, or two mouth brooding groups that can be found in the same river system in the wild they wont cross breed. But two from the Rhabdotus group is a no no, like the Norte and Blue Neon, they will do it everytime. Could be a cross or poorly colored from not being cooled down properly, even before you got it. I doubt that one is 100% of either as the colors don't match, but let it grow and lets see what happens. But it for sure has colors it shouldn't have, or it should have these colors but not both at the same time know what I mean.

Either way the dominant male looks great!

Brian
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