armadillo

Hi everyone

We're thinking of getting a dwarf puffer, so we're thinking of cultivating snails for his dinner. I have (again) a million questions on the process. Here goes:
- how many snails do I need to start with?
- what species of snail are suitable?
- what do you feed the snails?
- how big a tank would we need?
- would it need to be heated/filtered?
- any chance the the snails in the puffer tank don't all get eaten, and that we get ourselves a full-blown invasion in that tank?
- what do you feed them?
- what is the maintenance regime?

COBettaCouple

if you get even 1 or 2 of the little pest snails/garden snails that plague aquarium owners, you'll have an endless supply in no time.. they're extremely prolific and will quickly reproduce. you'll probably want small, soft-shelled snails.

you can throw pieces of veggies in for them to snack on. the size of the tank would pretty much just be how big of a box of snails you wanted.. a smaller tank might be fine since you don't need a real big supply of them. i don't think you need to do anything special to the water, other than maybe treat it with water conditioner. these snails seem able to resist a LOT!

i'd just feed the puffer a few snails at a time and learn how much he'll eat at a feeding and remove any that he doesn't eat. ON maintenance - i'm not sure you need to do much with that, the snails are almost indestructable it seems.

armadillo

That sounds easy enough. Tan, could i have some of your snails! Oh no, hang on, you've got dirty wriggly white worms. No thanks!

COBettaCouple

yea, i think puffers may turn their nose up at the white wigglies.

griffin

just a few. they'll breed quickly in a separate container.
pretty much any of the smaller snails, pond or pest snails are usually easier to breed
algae wafers, calcium, leftover food, veggies
~3 gal/puffer. but i wouldn't go with smaller than a 5 gal even for one
yes
yeah, but i'd be very very very very surprised if the puffer didn't demolish them all
snails, frozen bloodworms, live blackworms
50% water change weekly

armadillo

he he he, Griffin, I assume you're answering all the tank maintenance, size, etc. questions for puffers? I was asking about the snail tank. I got a shock when you said at least 3G per animal. I thought I'd need to be a millionaire to grow my own snails.

COBettaCouple

that puffer would die of happiness if you had snails big enough to need 3g each. !

armadillo

Or they'd eat him!

COBettaCouple

yea, that would be the dying happy part.

griffin

hehe, some apple snails do need at least 3 gallons (some need more!) - but i don't recommend feeding those to your puffers. :P

griffin

oops - yeah - i thought you meant for puffers. it's mostly the same, except i don't think a heater is really essential. filter is helpful, but kinda depends on your tank size and how often you clean it. i think the other answers pretty much work.

COBettaCouple

lol.. yea, but what a way to go for a little puffer.. it would be like me finding a 20' tall pizza! .. same result too probably.

armadillo

You mean the pizza would eat you!?

My parents have a snail problem (land snails). They have decided to live in the letter box, and no matter what they do (yes, my mom's even had this chemical warfare which I'd specifically forbidden but hey), the snails come back in bigger numbers. They're huuuuge and they slobber all over the mail, to the point that it all sticks together and sometimes they can't even read it.

Anyway... All this to say (get ready for a potentially MASSIVELY stupid question): would the dwarf puffer eat these if I dropped them in the water?

COBettaCouple

lol.. no, i'd eat it until i exploded.

the puffer probably would eat them, but there is a risk of introducing disease via them.

armadillo

Yeah, that's what I'd think too. On the other hand, parasites are life-cycle specialists, and I would be very surprised if aquatic fish - land snail was a known route.

COBettaCouple

true.. just introducing 'nature' to our tank systems often has negative results.. it's kind of like spinning a roulette wheel.. you might do good and you might not, but you find out afterwards.

musicman4567

Do puffers eat live snails? I know that I helped my grandpa with his tank a bit and his fish loved snails. What he would do to get them eaten was to just squish them. that way, there's no risk of them taking over your main tank (well, maybe ghost snails... =P). So, yeah, that is an idea also.

COBettaCouple

puffers eat the snails live, they can suck them right out of the shells or munch on the tiny ones.

griffin

yep - no need to crush the snails (if they're pond or pest snails) for dwarf puffers

armadillo

With their hard beaks, I figured they also munched on the shell. Is that not the case? What happens to all the discarded snail shells? Doesn't that cause a big waste problem after a while?

musicman4567

I wouldn't think it's a large waste problem. I've noticed at most chain fish stores (petco, petsmart, etc.), a large portion of thier substrate is snail shells. I think it raises the pH slightly, but that's about it. I was just thinking you should crush the snails to prevent them from spawning in the main display. But, if the puffers prefer live food or refuse to eat the crushed ones, that idea is shot...

COBettaCouple

and if you get a lot of snail shells, they make a lovely soup.

griffin

they will sometimes munch on the shell, but they also do a lot of slurping out of the shell. the discarded shells are either removed by a slave (you :P) or become part of the substrate. it doesn't really cause a big waste problem (unless the snails were too big), because only the shell remains.

for some of the larger ones that my puffer couldn't eat the entire snail by slurping, i would let it eat as much as it could, and then, while it was watching, crush the shell, and it would go in and eat the rest.

armadillo

Ooooh, thanks a lot for that, Musicman. The pH is kind of critical for us as it's naturally 8.0 out of the tap. I really wouldn't want it raised. So the slave option it is, then, rather than a seashell-themed substrate.

COBettaCouple

and i thought we were high at 7.6 here.

armadillo

Yeah I know. 8.0 is a bit of a disgrace. That's why Prime was the answer to my prayers. I can't thank you enough for recommending it. At least it takes the edge of potential toxins which, with pH like that, is no luxury.

Do you reckon a betta will be OK with 8.0?

musicman4567

Well, where I'm at, the tap water comes out at a lvoely 8.2... I have my betta at around 7.8, but he is a very resilient betta. he's been through alot (he was my learning fish...) including water changes of the entire tank (Hey, i thought it needed to be clean...). So, basically, I would use my betta as the exception, not the rule. I've read they prefer between 7.0-7.5.

COBettaCouple

bettas seem to adapt to the local pH.. ours are all happy - at first we tried hard to get to the magic 7.0, but learned the important thing with pH is to be fairly constant.

griffin

i think if you don't mind the look, it would be fine to leave the shells in the tank. once your pH gets too high, the shells won't dissolve to increase pH anymore. however, if your pH goes down, the shells will start dissolving and push the pH higher again. but keep in mind, this all happens really slowly.

armadillo

Yeah, despite many attempts by my boyfriend and fish stores (whose side is HE on?) to get me to buy a pH lowering medium, I've resisted. I'd prefer not messing too much with it, and give them stability.