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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| More filter(s)= More fish??
Is it true that if you have more filters or a Bigger filter than required for your tank then you can hold more fish in your tank? | 
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| IMO, the more filters you have, the more benificial bacteria you have to keep your tank healthy. But it doesn't mean you can have more fish. It really depends. You can't have more than 20 fishes 3 inches each in a 5 gallon with 2-3 running filters. It just wouldn't do.  | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| cuz the guy at my LFS told me i could put a few extra fish with more filtration | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnchips  cuz the guy at my lfs told me i could put a few extra fish with more filtration | This may be true, depending on the size of the tank, type of fish ect.
can you provide more information on what fish you have, what size tank and what extra fish you want to add and if possible the filtration system used.
Mike
Edit: its been a while since i have logged on i saw your aquarium stats, is that the tank/fish your talking about in this thread. | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike19 This may be true, depending on the size of the tank, type of fish ect.
can you provide more information on what fish you have, what size tank and what extra fish you want to add and if possible the filtration system used.
Mike
Edit: its been a while since i have logged on i saw your aquarium stats, is that the tank/fish your talking about in this thread. | not sure yet
but its a 28 gallon bowfront tank with 150 B marineland filter | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| adding more filters would also add water volume, like a sump, but no matter what, you are still limited by the size of the actual tank. you could have a 10g tank with a 100g sump and the 10g would always be crystal clear, but you still only have so much space for the fish to live in. | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by namehater adding more filters would also add water volume, like a sump, but no matter what, you are still limited by the size of the actual tank. you could have a 10g tank with a 100g sump and the 10g would always be crystal clear, but you still only have so much space for the fish to live in. | Right, don't forget that the fish need their own space, it is their space not really yours (if you can think of it that way). | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| There is more to overstocking a tank then filtration alone can compensate for. Filtration (depending on the type) can give you a larger water volume (sump), increased turn over rate (g/hr), and compensate for larger bio-loads (more places for ideal bacterial growth). However extra filtration can't compensate for: Space requirements, which varies with species and behaviour (tight schooling vs shoaling vs terrirotial). Territorial fish may only be concerned with the amount of area in the bottom of the tank and unconcerned with area's above that (bumble bee gobies for example). Small tight schooling neon's may be ok with extra fish since as a school they take up a limited amount of space. Metabolism produces more then just ammonia as a waste product. H+ is excreted, fecal material. If the fecal material isn't picked up by the filter then that means lots of vaccuming on your part. Also the ion effects (H+ for example) could cause large pH swings. Gas Exchange, filters will disturb the surface of the water but with more metabolic reactions occurring in the tank it's possible that you may not have adequate airation through out and you'll need to add airstones. Aggression, feed competition, and stress - these will all be other issues you could run into. Aggression from fish feeling crowded or competing for the most fish food. Competition if less aggressive fish aren't getting their share. Stress from all of the above has the potential for increased disease outbreaks.
I'm not saying you can't do it but just saying that overstocking is more complicated then throwing another filter on and some extra fish in the tank.
Good Luck | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| Yes, I was thinking about the space issue too. The size of the fish, if they are active swimmers, and if they stay in one range of the tank are things to factor in. Also, increased fish means increased nitrAtes and those are not removed by filtration; so, more fish would likely mean larger partial water changes, which is something to keep in mind.
With a stocking list, we'd be able to offer better suggestions than just theoretical advice. Can't wait to see what you decide on!
Edit: lol - Red typed twice as much in half the time! Haha I need some coffee this morning, I guess.  Lots of good points Red! | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Red1313 There is more to overstocking a tank then filtration alone can compensate for. Filtration (depending on the type) can give you a larger water volume (sump), increased turn over rate (g/hr), and compensate for larger bio-loads (more places for ideal bacterial growth). However extra filtration can't compensate for: Space requirements, which varies with species and behaviour (tight schooling vs shoaling vs terrirotial). Territorial fish may only be concerned with the amount of area in the bottom of the tank and unconcerned with area's above that (bumble bee gobies for example). Small tight schooling neon's may be ok with extra fish since as a school they take up a limited amount of space. Metabolism produces more then just ammonia as a waste product. H+ is excreted, fecal material. If the fecal material isn't picked up by the filter then that means lots of vaccuming on your part. Also the ion effects (H+ for example) could cause large pH swings. Gas Exchange, filters will disturb the surface of the water but with more metabolic reactions occurring in the tank it's possible that you may not have adequate airation through out and you'll need to add airstones. Aggression, feed competition, and stress - these will all be other issues you could run into. Aggression from fish feeling crowded or competing for the most fish food. Competition if less aggressive fish aren't getting their share. Stress from all of the above has the potential for increased disease outbreaks.
I'm not saying you can't do it but just saying that overstocking is more complicated then throwing another filter on and some extra fish in the tank.
Good Luck | there's a difference between schooling vs shoaling? | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Mentor
| From my understanding (in other words, I'm no expert), schooling behavior is when the group of fish swim tightly together and mirror each other's movements in one fluid motion; fish use this as a defensive mechanism to look bigger and confuse predators. Shoaling is also a group thing, but it's more about the socializing; I'd say corydoras are more of schoaling fish because they like to hang out with each other, but they'll break off in ones and twos to explore and play. | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| Quote:
Originally Posted by fishnchips there's a difference between schooling vs shoaling? | LOL, I was just about to ask the same thing! | |
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveengl From my understanding (in other words, I'm no expert), schooling behavior is when the group of fish swim tightly together and mirror each other's movements in one fluid motion; fish use this as a defensive mechanism to look bigger and confuse predators. Shoaling is also a group thing, but it's more about the socializing; I'd say corydoras are more of schoaling fish because they like to hang out with each other, but they'll break off in ones and twos to explore and play. | That's similar to my understanding of the concepts; shoaling involves staying in the same general area as other fish, while schooling involves coordinated movements.
Wikipedia says: Quote:
An aggregation of fish is the general term for any collection of fish that have gathered together in some locality. Fish aggregations can be structured or unstructured. An unstructured aggregation might be a group of mixed species and sizes that have gathered randomly near some local resource, such as food or nesting sites.
If, in addition, the aggregation comes together in an interactive, social way, they are said to be shoaling. Although shoaling fish can relate to each other in a loose way, with each fish swimming and foraging somewhat independently, they are nonetheless aware of the other members of the group as shown by the way they adjust behaviour such as swimming, so as to remains close to the other fish in the group. Shoaling groups can include fish of disparate sizes and can including mixed-species subgroups.
If, as a further addition, the shoal becomes more tightly organised, with the fish synchronising their swimming so they all move at the same speed and in the same direction, then the fish are said to be schooling. Schooling fish are usually of the same species and the same age/size. Fish schools move with the individual members precisely spaced from each other. The schools undertake complicated manoeuvres, as though the schools have minds of their own.
Shoaling is a special case of aggregating, and schooling is a special case of shoaling. While schooling and shoaling mean different things within biology, they are often treated as synonyms by non-specialists, with speakers of British English tending to use "shoaling" to describe any grouping of fish, while speakers of American English tend to use "schooling" just as loosely.
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November 10th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveengl From my understanding (in other words, I'm no expert), schooling behavior is when the group of fish swim tightly together and mirror each other's movements in one fluid motion; fish use this as a defensive mechanism to look bigger and confuse predators. Shoaling is also a group thing, but it's more about the socializing; I'd say corydoras are more of schoaling fish because they like to hang out with each other, but they'll break off in ones and twos to explore and play. | COOL thanks 4 THAT INFO Quote:
Originally Posted by mathas that's Similar To My Understanding Of The Concepts; Shoaling Involves Staying In The Same General Area As Other Fish, While Schooling Involves Coordinated Movements.
Wikipedia Says: | U Cant Believe Everything On Wikipedia U Know
Last edited by Shawnie; November 10th, 2009 at 06:00 PM.
Reason: please use the edit button for back to back posts :) TY | |
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