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December 9th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| undergravel filter
I'm thinking about replacing the existing undergravel filter in my 20 gallon tank with a HOB. I read somewhere once that it is not advisable to just shut down that type filter. Is there anything to that?
Also, I was wondering if I could just hang the power filter on the back and let the two operate together, then gradually shut down the UG. Any ideas? | 
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December 9th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| I like the second option..it will give the new one time to seed itself... UGF's imo are almost impossible to keep clean but others have had ok luck ...canisters are my fave but I have hob's with my smaller tanks...goodluck! | |
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December 9th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| Is there anything to that?
Yes and no.
Yes,there's a ton of debris,detritis and round about garbage that you're going to find underneath.A lot of it concentrated into the water will make stressful conditions for the fish.If you do tear it apart,it's best to remove the fish (temporarily) until you're finished.
The undergravel filter breeds all kinds of nasty bacteria,and "fleas" that live in the garbage that accumulates underneath them.It's a lot more than just what is necessary for the nitrogen cycle,too much to go into a lot of detail here,but there's a lot of 'nastiness' mixed in.
You could have the 2 filters running together. When I ran an undergravel filter,I had a HOB and the inlet to the HOB was placed inside the tube to the undergravel filter,and acted as a filter/ powerhead.It worked really,really well and great filtration............. until I decided to get rid of the undergravel filter..............that was disgusting.............took forever to clean out.........so,I never used another undergravel filter,the smell was nauseating,the water turned solid black..........and I thought my aquarium was clean. Not underneath.
So there is something to it,but if you leave it alone;it will be fine,if you choose to remove it,be prepared. | |
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December 10th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Thanks for the responses. I've taken all the fish and plants out and plan to do what you both have suggested.
Thanks, again! | |
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December 10th, 2008
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| | Fish Master
| by taking out all the fish , you are going to loose your cycle without some kind of ammonia to feed the bacteria...so be careful with leaveing them out of there too long  | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnie  by taking out all the fish , you are going to loose your cycle without some kind of ammonia to feed the bacteria...so be careful with leaveing them out of there too long | Thanks for the tip. I'm dosing with ammonia while the fish are out of the tank just as I would if I were doing a fishless cycle. That should work, don't you think? | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| That will work,just make sure the ammonia is 00 before adding the fish back in.
I would put the filter media in a bucket,and feed the ammonia instead of in the aquarium you are cleaning.You wont have to breathe ammonia fumes while cleaning.
I would put the gravel,decor,plants,etc in a bucket of water,with an airstone.Then you wont have to worry about loosing the cycle.Tear it apart,remove all the junk accumulated,change the water and replace everything minus the undergravel filter.You wont loose anything,and it will be quicker. | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| food for thought, you could also turn the under gravel filter into a RUGF (reverse under gravel filter) by attaching the output part of the power head into the tube. and use it in unison with the HOB. that way it wouldn't be sucking the waste farther into the gravel but it would push the waste up so that it could be sucked up by the HOB filter. I have friends that use this method. And trust me I almost puked when removed a old UGF from a tank. there were bugs living in the mulm (krud)! | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| what do you fellow fish keepers think about the reverse under gravel filter? has anyone here tried it? | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Addict
| i have a ugf how often should i clean out the ugf  | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| one or two times a year and you will  when you do clean under it! | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Addict
| lol i do remember the smell when had my chilid tank ,water was dark brown | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Addict
| Quote:
Originally Posted by fishlover78 food for thought, you could also turn the under gravel filter into a RUGF (reverse under gravel filter) by attaching the output part of the power head into the tube. and use it in unison with the HOB. that way it wouldn't be sucking the waste farther into the gravel but it would push the waste up so that it could be sucked up by the HOB filter. I have friends that use this method. And trust me I almost puked when removed a old UGF from a tank. there were bugs living in the mulm (krud)! | sounds like good idea,might try it one day!!!! ?!!! | |
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December 13th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| be ready for black water, and get that HOB going when you do this! | |
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December 14th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldieroffortune1974 That will work,just make sure the ammonia is 00 before adding the fish back in.
I would put the filter media in a bucket,and feed the ammonia instead of in the aquarium you are cleaning.You wont have to breathe ammonia fumes while cleaning.
I would put the gravel,decor,plants,etc in a bucket of water,with an airstone.Then you wont have to worry about loosing the cycle.Tear it apart,remove all the junk accumulated,change the water and replace everything minus the undergravel filter.You wont loose anything,and it will be quicker. | I just spent all AM following your helpful suggestions. It was worth the effort. Since the tank was empty, I took the opportunity to move the stand to a better location. Also, I was able to thoroughly clean the glass, gravel and plants. It's all back together now with the new HOB running. I put an airstone in the bucket with the gravel while I was working so hopefully I haven't lost the cycle. I'll test several times before I put anything back in. I plan to make it an all-invert tank. I already have snails and would like to add red cherry shrimp.
Thanks, again! | |
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December 15th, 2008
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| | Fish Addict
| keep us updated i'd like to know how everything worked out!!! | |
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December 26th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Update
Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicalGrimmish keep us updated i'd like to know how everything worked out!!! | I let the new HOB run in the tank while dosing with clear ammonia. After a week, the ammonia level tested off the scale. Apparently the new filter wasn't keeping up so I added a homemade filter that had been running for weeks in my quarantine tank. After a week or so I tested again. No ammonia. Or nitrites. I'm thinking, either the nitrites haven't shown up yet, or the nitrite-eating bacteria kept pace with the ammonia-eating bacteria, and the tank is cycled. I'll keep dosing and testing and see what happens. | |
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December 28th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Further update
Today the tank water tested 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 40 PPM nitrates. I did a 20% partial water change bringing the nitrate level down. I'm convinced the tank is cycled. I dosed with ammonia again. Tomorrow I plan to do a 50% PWC then put my 2 snails and 3 ghost shrimp back in. I'm going to leave it at that for a few weeks, then, if everything seems to be OK, I'll be putting some red cherry shrimp in with the other inverts. Hopefully, they'll make more cherry shrimp. I have a big clump of java moss in place for the little ones to hide in.
Wish me luck! | |
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December 28th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| good luck! -fishlover78 | |
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December 28th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by mldncx Today the tank water tested 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 40 ppm nitrates. I did a 20% partial water change bringing the nitrate level down. I'm convinced the tank is cycled. I dosed with ammonia again. Tomorrow I plan to do a 50% PWC then put my 2 snails and 3 ghost shrimp back in. I'm going to leave it at that for a few weeks, then, if everything seems to be OK, I'll be putting some red cherry shrimp in with the other inverts. Hopefully, they'll make more cherry shrimp. I have a big clump of java moss in place for the little ones to hide in.
Wish me luck! | Congrats that's a fully cycled aquarium,and there's no need to keep dosing with ammonia,you're ready to get it up and running with stocking. (after the new ammonia is gone <--about 12 hours since you put it in)   | |
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December 29th, 2008
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| | Fish Helper
| Quote:
Originally Posted by soldieroffortune1974 Is there anything to that?
Yes and no.
Yes,there's a ton of debris,detritis and round about garbage that you're going to find underneath.A lot of it concentrated into the water will make stressful conditions for the fish.If you do tear it apart,it's best to remove the fish (temporarily) until you're finished.
The undergravel filter breeds all kinds of nasty bacteria,and "fleas" that live in the garbage that accumulates underneath them.It's a lot more than just what is necessary for the nitrogen cycle,too much to go into a lot of detail here,but there's a lot of 'nastiness' mixed in.
You could have the 2 filters running together. When I ran an undergravel filter,I had a HOB and the inlet to the HOB was placed inside the tube to the undergravel filter,and acted as a filter/powerhead.It worked really,really well and great filtration............. until I decided to get rid of the undergravel filter..............that was disgusting.............took forever to clean out.........so,I never used another undergravel filter,the smell was nauseating,the water turned solid black..........and I thought my aquarium was clean. Not underneath.
So there is something to it,but if you leave it alone;it will be fine,if you choose to remove it,be prepared. | Yes I agree with you soldieroffortune1974.
It is best to remove the fish into a different tank for taking out the under gravel filter and doing some maintenance to the tank.
I have been using an under gravel filter for a 10 gallon before and it was disgusting. It was just like what you said soldieroffortune1974.
Anyways. Cleaning an under gravel filter, is hard work and you might encounter many problems during the creation of it xD
Good luck  | |
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December 30th, 2008
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Thanks!
Thanks for all the good wishes and sound advice. All seems to be going well.
The snails explored the tank from top to bottom immeditately. They're both resting today. Big day yesterday.
The ghost shrimp have each found a hiding place but come out to eat.
I plan to let everyone settle in for a few weeks before introducing some red cherry shrimp.
Again, much obliged to all! | |
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December 30th, 2008
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| | Fish Keeper
| mldcnx glad to hear everything is going good for you. | |
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January 2nd, 2009
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| Quote:
Originally Posted by fishlover78 what do you fellow fish keepers think about the reverse under gravel filter? has anyone here tried it? | I just switch mine over to run like this (in reverse) my power heads (aquaclear70's) has this feature built into them. so i was wondering about how this type of set up works also. | |
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