FishMagnet

So,
We bought a new house a couple years ago. Our dogs were used to a doggy door. The dogs had to wait until we got a fence put up before they got a new door. Which meant they now had to hold it...something they weren't used to.
They used the basement floor. The completly finished, and carpeted basement floor.
Fence got put in, doggy door got put in, problem solved. Mostly. On the occasions it would rain or storm, too cold, snowy, icy...they would do their business downstairs but really we could deal with that. After all, I wouldn't want to go out in a hail storm to...

Now we have a new baby. They immediatly started doing it again. With a vengeance. And, to top it off they decided to also do it in the baby's room.

What I've been doing:
I have been taking them out when I get home...if they go they get treats. If not they get to act dejected.
This seems to have helped a little.
I have been trying to give them more attention. Its hard. But I try.
We just today put up a plastic baby type fence from the bottom of the stairs, following the wall over to the doggy door. So at least when we're not home they can't use the entire floor. If they do go on the carpet it will only be in a place of our choosing.

So, what do I do? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

gremlin

What types of dogs? Are they bigger, or smaller? How long are they alone before you can shoe them out to go potty? Did you use an enzyme based cleaner on the carpet and the floor to remove all trace of previous "accidents"?

bolivianbaby

I've been training dogs for several years, so maybe I can help here.

First of all, since they refuse to be respectful of the baby's room, keeping them out of there with a baby gate would be a good idea. Depending on how old the baby is and how much spare time that gives you, re-training them to stay out of the babies room unless invited would help you out a lot.

Dog crates are very helpful when it comes to house-breaking. So is setting up "scheduled potty breaks" every few hours when you're home, etc.

Unfortunately, when dogs potty inside the house, they're actually telling you, in canine language, that it's their house. This can create a multitude of other problems.

Once you're able to provide us with the breeds, etc, we'll be able to help you further.

FishMagnet

The dogs are three Shih-Tzu.
They are alone from the time my wife leaves, about 8:00am. Until I get home, about 5:00pm.

We have tried enzyme based cleaners, but they seemed to do no good.

We did indeed put up a baby gate in baby's room. I forgot to mention that.

Baby's 5mo yesterday, so takes up a lot of time.

Crates would seem awfully cruel at this late point in their lives...scheduled potty breaks sound good.

bolivianbaby

Shih-tzus are one of the hardest to housebreak. They should be able to hold it all day if they're over a year old.

When I fostered dogs for a lab rescue, we of course had accidents on occasion. I used something called "Nature's Miracle". It's available from Petsmart. And believe it or not, after you soak up the urine, Dawn dish soap mixed with water works. I have blue carpet and none of the "doggie cleaners" bleached it out.

FishMagnet

The dogs are...Muffet is 8, Ling is 7, and Jack is 6.

I'm not sure if Nature's Miracle is what Wifey tried or not. But there were a couple different ones.
The plan is to work on the basement today. With the fence up they will no longer be able to get to their favorite spots.(the whole basement) By the way, from here on out they will only be allowed over there when we are there.

The baby's room the wife did the last couple of days, after putting up the gate. She didn't use an enzyme, just pretreated it with vinegar and then used the Bissell carpet cleaner we have.
Shes on her way this morning to pick up an actual swinging gate that we don't have to step over for her room.

Tony G.

when we potty trained daisy, we used a crate. It does wonders. She still holds it. Dont let them into the baby´s room. Pay more attention to the baby, they have to understand that it´s more impotant than they are. As far as cleaning the crapet, when we were house breaking daisy, we actually made our own mix.
lol
we used 1/20 bleach, water, this one dog accident liquid that came with our water vaccume cleaner. We let it soak, and then we scrub, it always came off.

bolivianbaby

I totally feel your pain! A lot of products on the market do not remove odor like they say they do.

FishMagnet

Oh the odor!

Can any of you outline the steps in say a 1-2-3 way that will tell me how to get them to stop?
Like watching those dog training shows that I can't remember the names of. Seems so easy on those.

bolivianbaby

Do they do it right in front of you? If so, a sharp "NO!!" or any loud noise and put them immediately outside, making them stay out there until they go and once they do, give them lots of praise is a good technique. I have to say I am not a fan of "spanking" dogs. I use a "bite" to correct, which is where you turn your hand into a claw and "poke" their neck or side to re-gain their focus onto you. That reiterates you're dominance or pack-leadership.

If they don't do it right in front of you, there's subtle ways of "claiming" your home that will help immensely.

FishMagnet

No they don't do it in front of us. They use the stealth technique.
We don't think they do it while we are here. If so, probably at night, or implememnting their top secret stealth moves.

bolivianbaby

Well, the good news is that's not blatant disrespect. The bad news is it's still disrespect. If they have no health issues, they should be able to hold it overnight. How long from the last time they go out at night until the first time they go out in the morning? And does everyone "go" when they're let out in the morning?

FishMagnet

I wish I could answer you. They have the privilege of the doggy door, and come and go as they please.
The morning is the hardest time. I get up at 4:30 and the dogs have always waited for momma to get up before doing anything. They don't even like to get up for treats. Mom is their alarm clock and just like teenagers they refuse to budge until its time..
I guess I'll have to try harder there.
My wife has mixed results taking them out in the morning. For one, she has the baby to deal with. Basically she doesn't always have the time to go out with them before work...depending on what kind of morning baby is having.
As I've said, I do try and take them out when I get home. The problem there is I pick baby up on my way home. Again, baby determines how much time I get to take the dogs out. For instance, if shes asleep when I get home its a quick dash to change my clothes, then take out the dogs then get back to baby before she wakes up. If shes awake she always need to be changed,etc before I can do anything with the dogs.

bolivianbaby

Yep, that's a toughie alright. Tell you what. Let's translate this into canine terms.

Pack leader (alpha male)-that's you wakes up. The alpha female (your wife) sleeps in. The alpha male is within his rights to say when the "pack" does anything, eat, sleep, relieve themselves, whatever needs to happen.

You're within your rights to not allow them to "sleep in" and to let them know when you get up, they get up. Tough cookies if they don't like it. Physically pick them up if you have to, eventually they'll get used to this "new schedule".

If your wife can let them out before the baby wakes up, that would give them an extra "potty break".

The afternoon "home arrival" seems like the toughest. Is it only a changing that has to be done if she's awake? Because if so, unless they have their little doggie legs crossed, they should be able to wait five minutes. This also lets them know that the baby comes before them, which is important for pack leadership. If it's a changing, feeding, etc and a long time before they get to go out when you come home, that's kinda tough on them. If it's more than a changing, could you change the baby, let the dogs out, and then feed her?

I make my dogs wait when I come home for me to change before I let them out. But my dogs do have bigger bladders. However, I do it to make sure they remain calm and remember that I'm in charge and I decide when "breaks" are.

Dogs should always come after the humans in the house (for dominance purposes). However, it's important to be a fair pack leader and makes sure that everyone's needs get met, including "potty breaks".

I hope this helps somewhat.

gremlin

Since the dogs have a doggie door and have full access to outside appropriate potty places, it is just a behavioral thing. With their age, it could be a medical issue - sometime they get urinary tract infections that could cause problems. My Aunt raised shih-tzus for many years. Of course, she was home all day and had no children at home, so she was able to devote 100% of her time to the dogs. She still had issues with 'accidents' with the older dogs. Crating may seem cruel, but if done properly can actually be a wonderful tool. It works on the basis that a dog will not "mess" in their bed. It can be time consuming, though, to start crate training now. I would almost suggest blocking them in the room that has the doggie door. Give them just enough inside space that they can be inside, but not so much that they would be comfortable pooping their. Basically, turn that part into a "crate" with the door of the area actually being the door to the outside. You can get puppy play pens, exercise pens, (or whatever they are called) that you can set up fairly quickly. When you cannot be with the dogs monitoring them, have them be in that pen with access to the outside. At this point, what you need to do is break their habit of going inside.

Here is what I'm talking about with the puppy pen:
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...=3307+10627+41
You can also make your own with fencing from a home improvement store...

As for the carpet cleaning - to make sure that you have all of the odor out, pick up a black light. The part of the mess that makes the smell will glow under a black light. If there is any trace of glow, there is still enough of an odor that the dogs will find it and still want to go there. Arm & Hammer makes a decent pet odor remover, There is one called Odorz Out, Baking soda and white vinegar are both supposed to be good, Dawn dish soap is excellent at breaking down the oils and it is gentle on the colors.

The fun shows are on Animal Planet - It's Me or the Dog, Good Dog U, Underdog to Wonderdog, there are a couple others, but I can't think of them right now.

FishMagnet

Remember that they do have a doggy door, and do use it...just not sure how much.
I totally agree with everything your telling me.
I'll get them up with me in the morning and go out with them.
In the afternoon I'll take them out, and hey, baby can come with me.
They just need to re learn this all I think.

FishMagnet

I also agree with what your telling me. I don't think they all have bladder problems. I think its more likely behavorial.
Its funny you mention penning them by the doggie door. I told my wife we should do that a few months back. Not sure how well that would go over though. If you all agree to that I will try it. I'm going to go with just trying harder to manually take them in and out as I have....just be better at it.

We do have a black light that she picked up to do this. Works pretty well.

bolivianbaby

The good thing about baby coming with you, is they'll start to see her as an alpha as well, which is fantastic! Another good thing about you going with them when they go out, you're reinstating as pack leader that outside is where the four legged members of the pack go to the bathroom. That'll also help them re learn what is acceptable and what's not.

Good luck and please let us know if we can help any more. You're definitely on the right track!