what i do is on my curent cycled tanks,
i clip a folded rag to the out flowing part of my filter,
afetr a week to a few days, the rag should be a healthy green,
then just put the same rag (unrinsed) in the same position on the filter of the tank
you are cycling,then let it sit with the fiter on for a few weeks, it should put the good stuff in and bad stuff out,
easy as that,
could you not also use some of the water from a cycled tank to give the new one a boost? a very good idea might have to try it for a quarantine tank.
the water doesn't contain any of the nitrifying bacteria. That's in the filter and substrata. I've been told that the best way to boost a new tank from an old one is with filter 'sludge' or to put some gravel from an established tank in pantyhose and hang that in the new tank for a bit.
what i do is on my curent cycled tanks,
i clip a folded rag to the out flowing part of my filter,
afetr a week to a few days, the rag should be a healthy green,
then just put the same rag (unrinsed) in the same position on the filter of the tank
you are cycling,then let it sit with the fiter on for a few weeks, it should put the good stuff in and bad stuff out,
easy as that,
Sounds very interesting, as long as the rag is safe material to be in the tank. I'll have to try that one.
I tend to put the filter for the tank that you want to cycle into an established tank for a week or so beforehand. By the time you want to use it, it's loaded with the bacteria you need and then it's just a mini-cycle for the new tank.
has anyone done an experiment with this idea yet i am curious how long after introduction of the bacterial medium is the environment stable enough for fish. If not i will probably set up a quarantine next week or so i can keep everyone updated.
I tend to put the filter for the tank that you want to cycle into an established tank for a week or so beforehand. By the time you want to use it, it's loaded with the bacteria you need and then it's just a mini-cycle for the new tank.
This sounds like the easiest, way to cycle yet described! I worry about transferring problems with parasites etc., but the lack of a complete cycle has probably killed more fish than anything else in modern aquariums. So, my next tank I'll try this.......
has anyone done an experiment with this idea yet i am curious how long after introduction of the bacterial medium is the environment stable enough for fish.
I haven't tried the cloth yet, as I am dubious as to how much bacteria it is likely to catch, and with the method I use, I have no worry.
When starting up six new tanks a few months ago, I followed the procedure mentioned before and was able to stock moderately within two days and within two weeks they were fully stocked. (I went from around 30 fish to over 100 within that two week period) During the next two months, I lost three fish, none of them died due to water conditions. Since the tanks were started I have lost just 5 fish total, only one of which I can't explain, a factor I consider proof positive of the method. My stocks continue to increase, but now nature is expanding the numbers, I'm not buying any more now.
The water doesn't hold the bacteria, the filter media does, so a 100% water change does no harm, so long as the media in the filter doesn't dry out and you pre-treat the water to remove chlorine etc.. This is not very different to starting a new tank with old filter media, which is just what I did. (What do you do when you want to move a tank? A 100% water change and put the fish straight back in!)
I am now installing UGFs in all my tanks, which involves taking the tank down, cleaning it out, putting the UGF in, replacing the gravel, refilling it and re-cycling the tank, unless you continue to use the existing filters while the UGF colonizes. Doing the change this way, the tank remains stable and the old filters are removed one at a time over a period of a couple of weeks. It works folks!
timg, can I ask why you have chosen to go with UGFs? That is what I have, and am in the process of changing over to cannister filters. The UGF was fine for the first year, but now the gravel is just too full of gunk. I have lost 2 fish lately to unexplained what I put up to bad gas pockets since I know the filter isn't exhausting the entire bottom now as it did when new. So I was just wondering.
have you not tried the wet/dry vacuum cleaner to clean out the ugf? If you can couple the vac to the riser pipe, it will clear all the junk and gunk without having to dismantle the tank.
If you really go to town with the vac, it will clean all the gravel as well. Just stir the gravel as the vac is working and it will pull everything away leaving nice clean gravel and clear channels in the UGF.
IDEAunless someone already mentioned it i dont want to read this again)
but, can you vac the gravel water into a new tank and let it setle into the gravel,
if it was to work i think it would be a big leap of cycling.
would or could this work?
not tried that, but it should pull some bacteria across. If you were starting an undergravel filter setup from an existing UGF then it would have benefits, but it would be just as easy to borrow some gravel from an existing cycled tank. I wouldn't think it would do any favours for the water quality though, as it will also add a lot of rubbish too. pre-loading the filters is the best way I have found myself, and it leaves no debris.
some great ideas!
what i did to rapidly cycle the 45 gal was take the filter out of the cycled 28 gal and put that in the 45 (filter power enough for 45 gal) and put the new filter in the cycled 28 gal. the 28 gal wasnt affected at all as plenty of bacteria was already established in the gravel and decor and there was enough bacteria in the filter to kick start the 45 as it was cycled in a week. no ammonia, and just a little nitrite. this does of course mean things like the pesky snail eggs also get transfered! if you have no snails this works fine. unfortunately i ended up infesting another tank. as i moved plants across too, i'd have ended up transfering snails and eggs anyway really! : :P
what i do is on my curent cycled tanks,
i clip a folded rag to the out flowing part of my filter,
afetr a week to a few days, the rag should be a healthy green,
then just put the same rag (unrinsed) in the same position on the filter of the tank
you are cycling,then let it sit with the fiter on for a few weeks, it should put the good stuff in and bad stuff out,
easy as that,
Where do you put the rag in the 2nd part of your trick? Before the filter? In the cannister with the filter? Sorry, but I simply cannot seem to be able to process practical information without tons of explanation, and it sounds like a really good tip.
The water doesn't hold the bacteria, the filter media does, so a 100% water change does no harm, so long as the media in the filter doesn't dry out and you pre-treat the water to remove chlorine etc.. This is not very different to starting a new tank with old filter media, which is just what I did. (What do you do when you want to move a tank? A 100% water change and put the fish straight back in!)
So large water changes will not bring about mini-cycles even?
So large water changes will not bring about mini-cycles even?
nope, shouldnt do, so long as you dont over do disturbing the gravel and the filter and send the bacteria into the water (as a suspension type scenario!) which would take some doing! this is why the filter sponge should be rinsed in used tank water as rinsing in tap water would kill the bacteria as this is where a large percentage of bacteria are, and care should be taken when replacing gravel (should you ever want to do that?!)
So large water changes will not bring about mini-cycles even?
Not usually no. Large water changes have a different problem associated with them. Changes in general aren't loved by fish unless the happen slowly. So even if the water quality is bad and you do a large water change and now the quality is good. Because they got used to the bad water, changing it to good that fast is just as stressful as leaving it bad was.
So large water changes will not bring about mini-cycles even?
nope, shouldnt do, so long as you dont over do disturbing the gravel and the filter and send the bacteria into the water (as a suspension type scenario!) which would take some doing! this is why the filter sponge should be rinsed in used tank water as rinsing in tap water would kill the bacteria as this is where a large percentage of bacteria are, and care should be taken when replacing gravel (should you ever want to do that?!)
I do disturb the gravel quite a lot when I vaccuum, to make sure I get all the bits and they don't sink to the bottom of my substrate and rot there. I just place the vaccuum above a bit of gravel, and shake the gravel in the vaccuum mouth a bit. Guess that would be OK. Especially that I never do the whole surface in one go.
So large water changes will not bring about mini-cycles even?
Not usually no. Large water changes have a different problem associated with them. Changes in general aren't loved by fish unless the happen slowly. So even if the water quality is bad and you do a large water change and now the quality is good. Because they got used to the bad water, changing it to good that fast is just as stressful as leaving it bad was.
That's always my dilemma. They make their water so dirty so quickly, what with them being mollies and overstocked, and I really don't like to see the nitrate creeping up, so I have to do something. So I do it every 3 days or so (25% PWC).
Interesting method. I wish I'd thought of it. My tank is in the process of cycling now. I got some enzymes from the LFS and have been putting it in. As well I add two small containers of gravel from my established tank. I figure, everybody in the 10 galloon is moving to the 55, so....*shrugs*
My fish stores keep trying to push quick cycle products on me (you know the type: claims to give a kick start to the settlement of your bacterial community by adding bacteria directly to the water). In desperation (had to isolate fish in a hospital tank that was not cycled), I tried it. So far, so good. Was only a week ago, though.
I also haven't been able to measure the ammonia, etc. as have been away and left boyfriend in charge. He's being resolutely silent on my water chemistry so I'll just have to see. I would hope he'd tell me if these fish had become poorly though. Anyway. Will let you know when am back home.
this does of course mean things like the pesky snail eggs also get transfered! if you have no snails this works fine. unfortunately i ended up infesting another tank. as i moved plants across too, i'd have ended up transfering snails and eggs anyway really!
I am sorting that problem at the moment with botias and clown loaches. Both love snails and eat them all up!
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Large water changes have a different problem associated with them. Changes in general aren't loved by fish unless the happen slowly.
I agree with this, and when introducing fish back, I always bag them and slowly add the fresh water to the bag over a period of an hour or so. it isn't a complete answer, but does ease the transition a bit.
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do disturb the gravel quite a lot when I vacuum
Who doesn't? If you are doing a good vacuum of the gravel, it is bound to disturb it a lot. I use the same technique to clean mine, but only do half at a time, and most of my tanks now have UGF's anyway, so the bacteria is below the gravel anyway in the sludge, which the gravel hoover doesn't disturb very much. Even without UGF, a large amount of the bacteria remains in the gravel, no matter how much you hoover it. The only time I get to disturb the bacteria big time is when I clean the UGF, and even then I take precautions to ensure the stability of the tank. (Check out the thread I put up today here.)
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Where do you put the rag in the 2nd part of your trick? Before the filter? In the cannister with the filter?
Not a trick, just a way of transferring bacteria from one tank to another. the description seems to point to the cloth being hung on the outlet of the filter in the new tank, although why it doesn't go inside baffles me a little. it would be much more effective inside the filter and colonize much faster than putting the bacteria into the water and letting it get pulled in eventually. Most filters have spare room inside for extra media and that would be where I would put the cloth IMO.
I think the cloth being on the outlet of the filter is the first part, the second part is what has me confused.
Do you think that if I just leave a piece of filter foam hidden in one of my decorations, it will nicely collect stuff, and be an effective bacteria coloniser if I just put it in a new tank?
Do you think that if I just leave a piece of filter foam hidden in one of my decorations, it will nicely collect stuff, and be an effective bacteria coloniser if I just put it in a new tank?
You would be much better to buy a £2.50 airbox filter and run that in your established tank for a while. (Assuming you have an air pump, of course). The floss in this box will colonize easily and within a week, you can just transfer it to the other tank and let it run there for a while... job done.
Your LFS will have these filters on the shelf at silly prices, mainly since very few people use them now. (Power Filters have taken over, unfortunately) They look like the one below and suction into the corner of the tank, out of the way.
Oooooh right. Thanks for pix. I see now. I saw one today actually. Doesn't help that I have to do all my fish shopping in Dutch. Yikes. As soon as they hear my accent, they switch to English, thankfully. Right: mental note: airbox filter.
Similar Aquarium Fish Forum Threads 
This sounds like the easiest, way to cycle yet described! I worry about transferring problems with parasites etc., but the lack of a complete cycle has probably killed more fish than anything else in modern aquariums. So, my next tank I'll try this....... 
So I was just wondering.
