Ok, taking the cancrete idea abit lighter....What about using foam insulation under the tank, instead of concrete. I'm thinking out loud, or in this case..out fingers. LOL
I like where this could go, and my 55 would appreciate it, as the tank is about 79 to 80 degrees, and the heaters are off most of the time during this time of year. And that's running with egg crate cvers instead of glass.
I think that would be self-defeating, since the insulation would hold in the cold instead of transferring it to the tank. You would need another substance between the tank and the cooler that would transfer the cold to the tank. Maybe a metal sheet would do the trick, and give enough support for the tank as well.
You could also use copper pipe for the under-tank cooler, since it's not part of the aquarium system.
Copper is an interesting idea. That's very true, we're not talking about running aquarium water through it, it's under the tank system, at this point. You could very easily set that up, and it would be very effective, and cheap as well. The onyl thing you would have to think about is the cooling portion of it, since it would need some way of offloading the heat to the surrounding air, like heat sink for a computer almost.
That's very workable, and you wouldn't need much of a pump since you would be pumping on a horizontal surface, rather vertically like some of the chiller systems do.
How about a car radiator with an electric fan? I'm not talking about the full sized one, but an oil cooler red, which is much smaller and lends nicely to connections to copper 10mm piping. As for a pump, it could be circulated by an electric fuel pump, or one of the drill chuck type pumps, but that would be a little too powerful, I think. The water wouldn't have to move around very quickly and could almost be run by itself, setup in the right way. Heat rises, cold sinks, sort of thing.
If you use 10mm throughout, the transfer coil under the tank could be bent from a single length using a snake pattern. If you angle it slightly, with the return higher than the inlet, convection would move it through. The rad could be set so that the return went into the top and the feed came from the bottom, mounted vertically, and cooled by the electric fan. You could even run through the fridge to super-cool it, I suppose. (Not sure if convection would work that well though.)
You would need a sheet of steel or aluminum to cover the element and take the weight of the tank. Thick insulation under the element would ensure that transfer was limited to the metal sheet.
I guess you could it that way. I mean, cars are 12 volt systems. I was leaning more towards the computer cooling system myself, with minor mods to use the copper. Those use a small pump to keep the water moving. Hoenstly, those systems aren't very big at all. The only thing that worries me about the car is the noise factor, computer parts are very quiet.
ever thought that you could use the cooling system as detailed and combine the computer fans instead of the cooling fans used by the car? As long as air moves through the rad, it will work fine. A pc cooling system isn't big enough to cool a 55 gallon tank, IMO, but the fans in combination with the oil cooler and copper piping may well do the job. PS. A lot of computer cooling fans are 12v too!
wow, guys this is an active forum and interesting discussion!
On the subject of freeser with thinner hose:
if 10m of 10mm hose = 1 liter, then 6mm need 20meters! (give and take). I agree that thinner hose is better, more surface of water in contact with cool air, but the space within the freeser is limited!
Another idea I had of filling the freeser with water or anohter liquid. then run the hose through that. cold water is better then cold air in heat exchange right?
This bring me on the other idea of having a cylinder and run a pipe around that:
Good idea, but how much pipe to run around the cylinder.... 10 meter = 1 liter remember? need a looong or wide cylinder....
Then the idea of having a 'radiator' under the fishtank
good idea, but.....
cold water sinkws warm water rises..
so if the water in the fishtank really cooled, it would stay on the bottom!
this reminds me of swimming in the lake...the top water was warm, but 5 foot down was very cold! :P
Also there is gravel etc on the floor of the fishtank, so water would have problems circulating in the tank.... Another thing: my poor plants would get cold feet!
Now, another point: is a chiller really needed? With marine fish it may be needed. the reef animone etc need about 24-26 (from memory) any higher or lower and they die. So if you live in the tropics, and want a marine aquarium, you need a chiller. Here in australia we can get a chiller for about 500, which is not bad, considering the fishtank-reef fish etc is easy about 1500 (4foot tank), so another 500 that chills and warms the water, to keep it on the ideal temp is worth it and not a big expense.
For tropical fish (which i have), Idont see the need to get a chiller - and my room regularly gets 34 and more. my fish has survived 32 water temp. Definitly not ideal, but they survived. You need to make sure that all the other elements are perfect like polution = 0, pH ideal, GH/KH etc etc
I believe that cold water is more detrimental than warm water (not talking about extremes ofcourse) And a cheap heater does the trick.
People have been putting iceblocks inthe water (me to!), and the fish loooved sitting (fish cant sit?) under the iceblock... put it took about 5 minutes, and this water wasnt treated (chloride remover) and I think the shock of the cold water in the tank killed some of my fish. I also tried a fan blowing over the water, this seem to keep the temp around 30 (instead of 32). This summer (Australia has summer in Jan-mar) I didn't bother and the fish were fine. If anything I think my plants suffered more then my fish!! (I call my fishtank in summer a fish-salad joke) :
i had not thought about the smaller inter-cooler radiators that would be great to put in the mini-fridge to cool the water and if you really need a chiller you could just bury the serpentine pipe you made under the gravel in your tank` the water-gravel mixture would cool then the rest of the tank would have to follow as i said before i would put a thermostat close to the gravel and have the pump only active if the tank is too warm with a wide enough gap between the chiller system and the heater only one would be on at a time and the temperature would only fluctuate a few degrees you would only see the inlet and return lines in the corner of the tank and with a powerhead you would get great current circulation to keep all the water the same temp Lee
ever thought that you could use the cooling system as detailed and combine the computer fans instead of the cooling fans used by the car? As long as air moves through the rad, it will work fine. A pc cooling system isn't big enough to cool a 55 gallon tank, IMO, but the fans in combination with the oil cooler and copper piping may well do the job. PS. A lot of computer cooling fans are 12v too!
That's very true. I hadn't thought of that.
Yeah Wizzbone...that's what I'm doing this summer too. I admit, I'm overly concerned about my children's...err fishes...well being. Anything I can do to make them comfortable and happy.
Vertigo - I agree, but I worry about putting extra things in the tank. Personally, I'd rather see something outside the tank. I'd hate to get a leak of something odd in the tank and have a disaster. I can't imagine how I'd feel with a tank of death due to my mistake.
you could just bury the serpentine pipe you made under the gravel in your tank
If you used this method, you would not be able to use copper, which is far more efficient at heat exchange than plastic, and as RW says, there is also the risk of leakage of coolant into the tank, and that could be disastrous.
I would go with the insulated underside and metal top system, given the options. The mini fridges are not very efficient either, you may as well just have a fan cooling the rad. Something you need to remember is that a lot of heat is exchanging through the system and to be effective, any heat it removes from the tank needs to be removed from the system, not pumped back underneath again. So whatever you use to cool the chiller, it has to be very effective.
That is very true, hence the reason I like the radiator/computer cooler system.
or
This is what I was thinking myself. I was thinking you could use this as the radiator cooler, so to speak. You'd just have to figure a way to flatten the water, so it cooled on the way by, or...you'd have to have the radiator attach to a small resevoir, so the hotter water had some place to go to get cooled again.
if 10m of 10mm hose = 1 liter, then 6mm need 20meters! (give and take).
can I correct you here? I think you'll find that for the same volume of water you will need 30 - 40 meters of 6mm, which increases the surface area by 300 - 400%.
Quote:
or...you'd have to have the radiator attach to a small reservoir, so the hotter water had some place to go to get cooled again.
that would be third exchange! 1. tank to cooler, 2. cooler to rad fins, 3. rad fins to reservoir. getting very complicated and VERY expensive. The coolers you showed are great for taking a lot of heat from a small area and getting rid of it, but whether they would have a similar effect on something like this I doubt.
The fans, yeah, they are quiet and effective, but to add another cooling system to the cooling system seems a little off the mark, don't you think?
I still lean towards the small-bore exchanger through a domestic freezer for cost effectiveness. For innovation, vertigo's idea holds an interest, but is too complicated to be economical.
I do wonder if there is any reason why copper pipe shouldn't be used for the freezer cooler though. How much will it pollute the tank? Most domestic water systems use copper piping, so if you use tap water, isn't it the same? If copper pipe could be used in the freezer, the heat exchange would be far more efficient and lead to less pipe to do the same work. Connections are simple, bends are no problem, fitting it all together would be a lot easier and heat exchange is much more efficient. Here is an idea to think about:
This could be made quite simply out of copper pipe, using soldered joints. It is designed to use 12mm head and 8mm filaments and will drop into the bottom of any chest freezer or stand at the back of an upright freezer.
However, I wouldn't put copper any where close to the tank, were it me. Copper is bad for fish, and worse for inverts. I wouldn't want the fish to suffer and die from any copper leaching into the pipes, for any reason.
you are right wolf these are very complex procedures and it is still in the experimental stage but you have to admit that this is do it yourself not do it easy and i like a good challenge i was science freak in school and still love to try things like this i wish i had a need for a chiller i already have a mini-fridge in my storage that i don't use could get the radiator from a junkyard for less than ten bucks which incidentally is what i paid for the fridge at a garage sale could we use a car radiator as the base for the aquarium tim is against my idea of a concrete base i figured the weight would be the largest concern concrete holds its temperature quite well and would stay cool i think since the circulation of water would be fast through the concrete and then slow thru the fridge it would keep its temperature and just continually transfer to the concrete the concrete would carry to the bottom of the aquarium and cool the substrate which would cool the water but we will have to leave this to people who need chilled water it gets hot here but the a/c keeps my tank pretty regulated but i hope eventually that we can get everybody chilled that needs it and not have then broke for the comfort of the fishy friends everyone that wants one should keep their eyes on garage says and such for the mini fridge have any of you seen the coolers that plug into your cigarette lighter in your car to cool the food electronically this is basically a cooler lid that is a fridge compressor only smaller could be turned into a hood by the right person check that out Lee
The problem with the mini fridges is that they don't have a great ability to chill quickly and I think that may let the chiller down. I'm not against the concrete idea, but the weight may be an issue certainly for larger tanks. I also think that the cooling effect would be hindered by the surrounding air heating the edges and underside of the block. I could be wrong.
lets think about this rationally the need for a chiller is very locale specific (really hot places and places where a/c isn't available) so could we incorporate this mini-fridge idea with the coil base into a stand the fridge inside underneath with the base/tank directly above then the support for the added weight could be figured into the construction and it would save space and be decorative but in my head i think it is getting too complicated so i moved to paper and it got overly complex with a thermostat controlled valve that i am not sure even exist (but it has to) and the cost has gone back up it makes me wonder if it wouldn't be easier in the long run to just buy the manufactured product sometimes the hassle of construction and maintenance does not outweigh the expense IMO Lee
As fascinating as all this is it really does make it seem like hard work for very little... why not use the freezer section of the bar fridge to make ice cubes and float them in a plastic ziplock bag? The ice can't contaminate the water because they're not mixing.
If you need it cooler, add another bag - getting too cool? take a bag out. as each bag melts just add another from the freezer, empty and wash the old bag, refill and refreeze.
I'm betting a cycle of 12-13 bags would be enough since they'd all be frozen again by the next morning.
This way you can utilise the rest of the mini fridge for more usefull endeavours - like cooling your beer!
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I hadn't thought of that. 
I can't imagine how I'd feel with a tank of death due to my mistake.
