aabaltz

i just got a 55 gal tank , and i have a 20 gal tank laying around that i want to turn into a sump tank to run a wet dry filter setup. My questions are

1) i want to run the heater in the sump tank, how big of a heater do i need to keep the whole system at a constant temp, and does it matter in what part of the sump the heater is in?
2) I plan on making an over flow setup out of "specimin boxes" with a plan i found on the internet, how big of a pump will be needed to return the water to the tank
3) what if any other forms of water movement (airation) will be needed with a setup like this
4) if using a system like this, would the system have to be temp. shut off at feedings as to not suck the food right out of the tank?

Thanks for any help in advance. any other hints i may be overlooking would be greatly appreciated

nemo addict

1. 150w should do and no it dont really matter where you put it but better in a larger section of the sump ,
2.what GPH would the overflow be rated at ??
3. you would need power heads in the main tank 20x turn over of your tank
4. i normally turn off when feeding but dont really need to personal choice ,,
i also turn off skimmer while feeding too

aabaltz

First of all thanks for the info. Since i would be constructing the overflow myself im not really sure what the gph would be. The plan that i found on the internet calls for using two of the lee's specimin boxes, a small one one the inside of the tank and a large one on the outside. Water would enter the inner box via hole that are 3/8" then go through a siphon tube that is 3/4" into the outer box which would be divided into two sections, one side where the water falls into then spilling over a center divider into the other side where it will enter a 1" elbow that has a small filter over the opening then through 1" plumbing down to the sump. Possibly would add a second siphon tube depending on gph of the single tube. also not sure exactly what size pump to go with for the return. the plan that i found on the internet was using a 400 gph pump.

pepetj

aabaltz: First, welcome to Fishlore!

1) I have very limited experience using heaters since I live in the Caribbean, however I believe you need either an in-line heater or a fully submersible unit not a hang on back unit since the water in a running sump is usually at or below its mid-line level. I would use a heater rated for 65gal sinced that's the volume of water you intend to transfer heat to but I'm no expert on this.

2) for a 55gal tank an ideal Wet/Dry sump filtration flow, as far as I know, would be the same as in a canister filter: 5 to 6 times the volume of your tank per hour: powerhead rated around 300GPH should do the work.

3)That depends: I have a Wet/Dry filter (with a 10gal sump) installed in a 45gal moderately planted tank, with DIY CO2 injection. I keep Rainbowfish in that tank so I need good levels of dissolved oxygen but I can't afford much water agitation. This is what I did: I placed a micro-bubble wall all along the rear wall of the tank. That way I have both O2 and CO2 at desired safe dissolved levels (they don't compete but water agitation would remove CO2 but not O2).

4) Food will likely find its way into the overflow box but if you don't overfeed I don't see a problem there (otherwise you could end up with a nitrate factory). There are ways of working this around without turning your filtration off. I just feed at the opposite end of the tank from the overflow box; some use a floating barrier to feed their fish in these type of settings.

One question, are you into freshwater or saltwater?

One suggestion for you: don't spend in bio-balls, use nylon pot scrubbers as bio-media, keep at least 10gal for the sump.

Another one: Once your system is installed and running, turn it off and check if you are spill proof. The outtake (from the powerhead into the tank) needs to either stay above your tank water level or to have a small hole above water level so it sucks air in and brakes the reverse siphon that will occur once the powerhead stops working.

Still another: why not using a PVC (box-less) overflow?

Pepe
Santo Domingo

aabaltz

thanks pepetj
1) so useing a 20 gal tankfor the sump, how much of the tanks should be used for the pot scrubbers/ how many do i need?
2) personally i like the way the boxed overflow system works, according to what i have read it keeps a constant syphon so even if the pump shuts off and then comes back on at a later time (i will def have the hole drilled in the return pipe) the whole system will keep working. Is this also the case with the boxless pvc you described, or would the syphon have to be restarted after the pump is off and on??
3) as of right now i am ony into freshwater. i have a small freshwater 10 gal set up , 3 fish in it , and sooner or later the 55 will be running, but i still need to build the stand to house the tank and wet dry system, build the wet dry itself, and all the fish food and supplies and such. In the future when both my knowledge and resources are greater, i might look into a saltwater setup, but for right now im happy with where im at.
also thanks for the bubble wall idea. they look pretty cool, and from what i found on the net they are inexpensive as well.

pepetj

I'm in the same boat, 100% freshwater and hoping to go saltwater when honestly ready for it.

1) Powerheads are very useful for multiple purposes, including creating current streams or complement filtration. The fish you intend to keep should tell you if and how to use them.

2) Basically yes. It is a good idea to use three vertically divided compartments in a Wet/Dry sump.

In a DIY 20gals Wet/Dry sump I would go with 10gal (half of the tank) for the sump, then use 1/4 of the other side, adjacent to the sump, for placing a sponge filter, and the remaining 3/4 for the bio-media.

However, the bio-media compartment should have a false floor at say 1-1/2 or 2" from the tank's floor, so the water that tickles down from the bio-media falls there (a piece of eggcrate works great here as false floor) and moves through an aperture slightly shorter than the false floor into the prefilter sponge area. I rinse that sponge at least once a month to keep it unclogged (A sponge for AquaClear 70 or 110 works well here).

3) I believe there are PVC overflow designs that keep the siphon in stall if the powerhead stops, just as overflow boxes do. I built one that is different from your description but haven't tried it yet. If you are going with 300GPH then 3/4"PVC is what you need.

Sidenote: The Wet/Dry sump filter I have installed and running is a Pro Clear Aquatic Systems model 75. This unit is designed to serve tanks up to 75gal and its sump is a bit under 10gal.

The reason I made the comment on the wattage requirement for in-line or submersible heater is that I keep an in-line chiller in one tank, and I figure the same principles that apply to heat transfer from the tank to the chiller (which cools the water) also goes for heaters, but in the reverse heat transfer direction (which heats the water). Hopefully someone more knowledgeable (e.g. Soldieroffortune 1974, Tavel) should come along to help.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

aabaltz

thanks again.hope to start constuction of sump tank this week.

pepetj

Great, keep us updated.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

aabaltz

so I decided that before i go and build a sump out of my 20 gal, i was going to try a smaller scale version first. so i looked around craigslist and found a 10 gal tank for 3 bucks and im making a wet dry filter for my ten gal tank first, just so i can work out any issues on a small scale, then move up to the 20.
tried uploading pics, but it said that there was a security problem so no dice. so far acrylic walls are caulked into tank ( aquarium safe caulk) and bottom support for the pot scrubbers is constructed. drip tray is started, but needs to be drilled and finish assembled

pepetj

Nice project. I suggest you use 1/2" PVC overflow and run it with a small powerhead.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

aabaltz

so the whole sump tank is built, dript tray is 90% just need to figure out how to make the drip tray sit at the top of the filter area. perhaps on pieces of pvc like a small table? also going to menards after work to get stuff to start working on the overflow.

pepetj

If you could upload some pics of your work in progress...

You could use a frame built from eggcrate to hold the fiber media in the drip tray. Attach it with clear epoxy to the interior walls of your tank (in 4 minutes it will hold) and then use aquarium safe silicon to secure in place. Let it cure for 24 hours.

After it's done just place another eggcrate on top of it, add the fiber cloth and direct the output of the overflow there.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Peterpiper

Just on the return pump,
A 300gph pump would be reduced to around 100gph with a head height of 2'.
On the side of the box the pump comes in will be a chart that shows the decreased flow rate at "X" head height.

aabaltz

i tried to post some pics a couple days ago, using photo bucket , but i have to figure out how to resize them, the forum wouldnt let me post them. my drip tray i constructed out of an old part of a undergreavel filter that i got with my tank, cut down to size with acylic sides ( 1/8 inch thich by 1 1/4 inches high) . i will try to epoxy some sort of shelving like you said to support it. also , being that the sump will first be tested under my ten gal tank i put in a bid on a 65 gph pump on ebay. amazing how cheap stuff can be found on there. for the final stages of the sump, ill prob step up to between 5 and 6 hundred gph, that should be plenty from what i have researched