pepetj

I am upgrading my home office -which thanks to Fishlore and MTS looks more like a fishroom- so I can do some fish-housing adjustments.

There is a must do adjustment: my Rainbowfish tank in-line chiller use must be minimized -must adjust some expenses, I pay up to USD150 a month for the energy cost of this unit -you won't believe how many times-fold energy cost down here- so I am moving them to different smaller tanks (three Perfecto Breeder 30) as they grow up/mature (we're talking a year, maybe a bit more), in the area of my apartment where I have recorded lower temps in tanks -no home thermal insulation is used down here either.

I took the chip-board out of an old desk built on a steel frame. It's been a while (1985?) since I studied statics, so basically I relied on published plywood structure specifications to somehow be sure about the structural soundness of my intended DIY-two level stand.

For consideration of the engineers in Fishlore, as well as those experienced in DIY stands, and those without such experience that make so much sense in observations, I submit some details of my on-going Xmas vacation project.

Purpose: the stand should be able to carry the load of two 30gal (30"Lx18"Wx13"H) breeder tanks on the top level, and at bottom level one 30gal breeder plus two 5.5 gals tanks.

For the top level, I assumed the weight to be around 600lbs for both tanks and equipment (manufacturer specs: filled 274lbs each), did some numbers (don't ask how, I might not be able to do it again, LOL) and so far a single sheet of 3/4" thick plywood cut/placed in parallel should hold more than that load lifetime. If the tanks were to be held by a stand with its exact area, that means it should support 0.55psi or 3.8Kpa -my maximum; if it were evenly distributed along the stand surface are, that would be 0.41PSI or 2.8KPa -my minimum.

I am considering reinforcing the old metallic structure with extra 1-3/4" L-steel frames (couldn't find smaller ones but if I succeed tomorrow will likely use 1"x1") I intend to secure with well fastened bolts. However the math I did -if we can still trust my rusty calculations- suggests I could do without them.

Question about top level reinforcement: should I reinforce with three L-steel frames -one at middle, two at extremes of existing frame? or would it be better with two L-steel frames following the positioning of the longitudinal trims of the tank? Please see the croquis down.

As for the bottom level, since it already has a centered 1"x1" hollow square structure, I would locate lateral L-steel frames close to the edges.

Room for structural load-handling error is considerable, for one thing I purchased US made construction-intended plywood that seems to be of good quality, but go figure (humidity in storage surely played a role downgrading it somehow).

I believe I followed guidelines to ensure I would stay below maximum safe loads, even if using single support (at each side only) as long as I run parallel placing of plywood.

Feel free to run your own calculations and let me know if I'm close or way out of target.

Other questions: plywood treatment.
I am considering using a product to prevent termites or alike to settle in the plywood, as well as applying some coat to protect from water spills damage over time.
Is there anything I should by all means not use -as toxic for fish in the long run? What are my options for adequate plywood treatment? I like the rustic look -and my wife endorse it in this particular case LOL- so please advice me in terms of what is cost-effective. I have minimal experience working with wood and a bit more but still non-significant in metal structures.

Thank you

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Attached Images

	DIY tank stand from old desk top level top view croquis.jpg (66.0 KB, 38 views)
	DIY tank stand from older desk bottom level top view croquis.jpg (34.8 KB, 26 views)

soldieroffortune1974

Sounds like you have ANOTHER nice project underway.

The calculations I am assuming were made for the breeder tanks without gravel or heavy decor. With gravel I would bump the estimates up a bit more.
I would go with option A in your pic above.It will probably offer the best stability and support,without altering the existing desk frame.
The plywood treatment method shouldn't affect the fish at all (after fumes are gone) unless you intend to have the plywood inside the tanks with the fish (I am assuming not) A good spray-on/brush-on water sealant would work,unless you're worried about this structure being around in 70 years,then I would go with pressure-treated wood. A good water sealant like Thompson's Water Seal is sufficient or maybe some type of varnish/glossy sealant to bring out the wood grain.

pepetj

Disclosure to SoF'74: You are right, I have SEVERAL projects currently underway and then some still in the "brainstorming" phase.

Being as honest as I can, it seems like most (if not all) my tanks are a work in project.

Update: I treated the wood with a product to prevent termites and alike to consider making it their home.

I purchased a clear polyurethane spray to treat the plywood from occasional water spills, I intend to apply it tomorrow as I work on the steel frames.

The good thing about DIY is the flexibility for upgrading the original ideas. I am considering to place four 30gal breeder tanks if I'm able to find them locally tomorrow. I followed your advice SoF'74 and I am reinforcing as option A. I found a better L-shape steel frame (1-1/4"x2", perforated).

I noticed that I have little room in height in the lower level shelve, so I am going with DIY-all glass canopies for those two tanks, as I am placing two wall mounting lamps as ceiling lamp attached to the plywood of the top shelve.

It's a ready to install lamp with two T8 standard fluorescent rated at 36W each. Not the ideal light, not the best ballast but at least easy to install and seal to prevent electric hazard.

One idea I'm considering is to interconnect the two 30gal breeder tanks on the top shelve with an inverted U and use the same Wet/Dry sump filter for those two tanks. If I place the overflow in one tank and the return in the other I figure this would work as if it were a single tank.

I intend to run HOBs and sponge filters in the lower level tanks since the Wet/Dry sump filter can only handle two of the four tanks.

Note: These are not scaled drawings, the width of top shelve is 24" while the bottom shelve is 19-3/4". The gray color is just to note the metal frame of the old desk, which is 1" hollow square at the bottom, and 1"x1" L-section at the top. I am placing the added L-sections on top of the old desk structure.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Attached Images

	DIY multitank stand steel work project.jpg (33.8 KB, 25 views)
	DIY multitank stand for Rainbowfish project.jpg (66.4 KB, 25 views)

soldieroffortune1974

One idea I'm considering is to interconnect the two 30gal breeder tanks on the top shelve with an inverted U and use the same Wet/Dry sump filter for those two tanks. If I place the overflow in one tank and the return in the other I figure this would work as if it were a single tank.


The idea being the water going through the outlet will create a siphon in the U to draw water from the other tank.When you place the U,make sure it is filled with water,plug both ends and place inside both tanks,then remove the plugs under water.It might work and it might not.I don't think it will be reliable and consistant,and you may end up dumping water everywhere......It would work in a sealed environment,but I don't think it will in this case.All you can do is try and let us know how it goes.

I attempted it for the past hour.I did get it to create the siphon for about 2 minutes with a higher water flow rate,but after 2 minutes,the siphon stopped and water went everywhere.I will keep playing with it and see if we can't come up with a solution.It's a good idea,and there has to be a way to make it work.............maybe

Tavel

I have another project for you

I'm developing a thermostat that would be capable of operating a 10-amp (12VDC) cooler, which would easily operate a a 150-200W peltier (Thermo-electric cooler). You have a lot of flexibility because you can put it inline, or inside a HOB filter.

The whole thing would cost less than $75USD (the thermostat proper is less than $15, the TEC is the expensive bit), and it would probably operate more efficiently than your phase-change cooler.

The cheapest equivalent commercial product I found is $60USD for the THERMOSTAT, and another $100 for the cooler. Yikes.

I'll make some directions when I have it completed. Seems like I've been waiting weeks for the parts to come in, but that's just the holidays getting in the way. Gah.

(On a related note, I'm also developing an LED retrofit for aquarium hoods. That would also boost the efficiency of your tank chiller as it would eliminate 95% of the heat dissipation into the water...so your chiller doesn't have to work as hard! So far it'll cost around $60 to replace an 18W fluorescent light, and another $20 for every 18 fluorescent watts after that...up to 72 fluorescent watts. )

Couple of things to keep in mind...they're not done yet though!

pepetj

Tavel: Thermoelectric micro chillers can be used in tiny tiny tanks. Resun has two models, one of them, the CL-80 claims to handle up to 16gal tank for 5C pulldown. In my experience with mini-chillers, those claims are based on experimental conditions and are not energy efficient.

However, for 10gals down this is an interesting DIY project. The Resun CL-80 is priced around USD200 and can be used in-line with a powerhead -of course the use of efficient mechanical filtration is advised. I have seen the small units thermoelectric chillers (internet), some are quite small and can be mounted on top of the HOB cover.

As for lighting with LEDs, I have been exploring the idea, so far for planted tanks the cheap common LEDs might not work too well; as far as I know to date, ideal LEDs are a bit expensive and require a heat sink.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Emory

God you guys are smart.

Tavel

I estimate that the chiller would be effective up to 30 gallons, it can move 200watts of heat at full voltage (usually 16VDC), so at 12VDC I expect it to move about 100 watts of heat. You can calculate it that same way as heaters. 100 watts is 100 watts, it doesn't matter which direction it's moving.

But of course, the commercial products don't put the ratings in metric. They use BTU's which makes it extra hard to compare -- lame.

NOTE: I'm not building the chiller, I'm just saying my thermostat is suitable. I'm actually putting it on a reptile enclosure to operate a cooling fan. Then another one to operate a heater (oh yeah, it's switchable between heating and cooling ). that's why it can handle high current and is suitable for TEC's.

You're right about the LED's, the only suitable ones are rather expensive. But look at it this way, you can buy a $6 hi-power LED that operates at 700ma...or 35 standard LED's (for $13) that operate at 20ma (35x20 = 700). The standard LED's actually cost a lot more for the same amount of light.

The heat sink isn't a problem because the aluminum reflector in most hoods works perfectly! These things don't dump tons of heat, but they're very small and are very sensitive to heat. They are semi-conductors, not light bulbs.

But they do work perfectly well for growing plants. I've seen a couple instances of people using hi-power led's for hydroponic gardens. (though they only used red and blue under the notion that plants reflect green light, so using lights with green is a waste of money.) Red lights would make the fish look silly, so we'll pass on that. lol

pepetj

Update: My arms, legs and back ache a bit but I built the two level stand. I left the camera downstairs (my vehicle) so I will upload tomorrow. There were only two 30 Breeder tanks available so I'm still figuring out what I'm going to do at the upper level. The inverted U tank interconnection is not going to be implemented.

Had a small water spill as I was filling the two tanks in the lower level. I placed a seeded filter (AquaClear 70) in each.

Emory, jump into the DIY projects. I am learning as I go and I figure SoF'74, Tavel and the engineers around are glad to help us out.

It's a lot of fun, takes some time out of predicted routines of life, could save you some money -there's some risk of loosing some too- and ends up improving the life of our beloved pets.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

pepetj

Here's a pic of the stand as I work on the tanks set-up (with the real mess I do all around it). The tanks at the lower level are in seeded fishless cycling with ammonia solution at the moment. The lower level of the water is in order to have better levels of dissolved oxygen by means of a harder splash form the HOBs output. Lights on 24/7. No DIY glass canopies yet there...

Once cycled, I am going to empty both tanks and place the substrate in the 45gal there (Eco-Complete) which I intend to mix with natural river sand (intend to collect it next week) the same day I plan to move the Rainbowfish in.

Pepe
Santo Domingo

Attached Images

DIY two levels aqurium stand.jpg (75.5 KB, 36 views)

pepetj

Update: Got another Perfecto 30Breeder tank! so the inverted U tank-interconnection is in active mode again.

Pepe
Santo Domingo