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Old September 28th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
Part 2 of 2:

Notice that it takes several days before you can see any growth at all. And yes, I did seed the screen. Going back one day to Day 10, here are some closeups:

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup1Day10.jpg


http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...Day10small.jpg
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup2Day10.jpg


http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...Day10small.jpg
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup3Day10.jpg


Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup4Day10.jpg


Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...seup5Day10.jpg


And here is a closeup from Day 11:

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11closeup.jpg


And what it looks like out of the stand. Note the algae coming out of drain; it was almost 2 feet long before I pulled it out for this pic:

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/AcrylicDay11heldup.jpg


Here's the growth on the 3000K side:

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...11out3000K.jpg


And the 6500K side:

Click the image to open in full size.
Hi-Res: http://www.radio-media.com/fish/Acry...11out6500K.jpg


Instead of following the rule of cleaning only one side at a time, I had to do both in order to measure the algae of the 3000K side versus the 6500K side. Here is what was pulled off, like pulling a rope:

Click the image to open in full size.


Here are the algae amounts removed, after a cleaning:

Click the image to open in full size.


And here's the screen after cleaning; this is why you don't clean both sides, becuase it leaves left nothing on the screen for filtering:

Click the image to open in full size.


A few notes:

o The screen is only 1.5 inches from the acrylic wall, and thus some water does get on the wall. But this unit is currently not setup for airflow with a fan, and it has a lid, so the water never gets a chance to evaporate. As a result very little saltcreep forms. I think I wiped it twice during the 11 days; however it did not do anything, just redistributed the droplets. On day 11 there was a small amount of creep; when I pulled the screen out I just reached in an splashed some water on it and it came off.

o There was a great increase in algae between day 10 and 11. I've seen this many times: once the hair algae gets to a certain point, the next day it covers everything.

o When the screen get covered, algae start flowing down the scrubber and out the drain. Not a little, but a lot. It easily reached the botton of the sump 18" below. I just grabbed it and pulled it off. This might be a way to feed tangs, if the unit were placed on the hood of the tank.
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
Is there any smell to the algae? Like cooking algae? I was also wondering if this was set up below your tank if the lights are esthetically a problem?
(I was considering piping the set-up to my basement below, do you think that could work?)
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
I've never cooked algae

There is no smell at all when it's running, because it's covered by water (just like macro in a sump). For cleaning or scraping, most folks have green hair, brown slime, or red/brown turf, and when cleaning these in your sink there is a slight ocean smell. And if your tank was way overloaded and your screen is new, then you may have the thick black oil-spill type algae, which does smell a little bit more. But this type of black algae only lasts for the first week or two while the nutrients are still super high, and then the regular green or brown starts growing. Nevertheless, a key thing to know is that when you are done cleaning and you've re-installed the screen into the scrubber, go back to the sink and wash it well with soap: bottom, sides, front, back, and rinse it all down good.

As for light, most setups will put out a lot of light, so your stand would have to be sealed to block the light. Or you could have an acrylic on built, and then paint all the outside (except for teh window) to block the light. This method leaves it no brighter than a reading light.

Basement method is just a matter of how easy you can route plumbing, an use a large enough pump (check the pump ratings for the height it can push).

All very do-able.

Last edited by SantaMonica; September 29th, 2008 at 12:43 PM.
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
Hi Santamonica, Can you answer a few more questions? How often would you clean your new setup or maybe grooming is a better choice of words? Once a week alternating sides or is that too much? What would happen if you let it grow? Would water over flow if the algae became blocked. Would algae die if it was too thick? Thank, Jess
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
The acrylic screen is still new, with just green hair that comes right off, so I'm just doing very gentle one-sided cleanings now, and I'll probably do one ever four days or so, since it's new. I'm sure once I remove the bucket, the acrylic will grow even faster. If you just let it grow, I think the T5's are strong enough to go through any amount of algae that can fit inside the scrubber. So I think the only issue would be if the compartment filled up to the lid with algae, water flow might leak. out the top. Also, by that time algae would be flowing out the drain for several feet, and would start dying in the sump. If you pulled that algae off every few days, then the water flowing out the top would be the only concern. I might try it
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
In my sailboat we have a lever that triggers the pump in the bilge to turn on when the water rises too far. Would a lever to trigger "something" to keep water from over flowing and cause water damage be a good idea? Since you're the engineer : ) can you think of a way to keep from having this accident? I was thinking if one went on vacation. Maybe only limited knowledge of friend/caretaker and maybe you wouldn't want to bother someone with the details of cleaning the screen. Or lets say you want to sleep more easily. Could this be incorporated?
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Old September 29th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
You would build yours with a lip on the top that would cover/protect the lights, and you would set in on the sump, so if it filled up it would just overflow into the sump with no damage. you would also build it taller than mine, maybe 2" more, which would give you an extra month of growth room in side the compartment.
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Old September 30th, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
Ok, I've got to study your drawings some more. Thanks. : )
Jess is offline  
Old September 30th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
Reminder Of The Day: Flow...

The basic rule of thumb for flow for a standard pipe slot is 35 GPH (US gallons per hour) (140 liters per hour) per inch (2.2 cm) of screen width. Thus a screen 2" wide would need 70 gph. This should cover the entire screen with a swift flow on both sides, and leave you with a little room for adjustment. The more flow, the better, but this amount has proven to work well. How tall the screen is does not change the gph, however; only the width does. Here is the chart:

Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)

2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
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Old October 1st, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
And of course the higher the GPH the more $ they cost.
Jess is offline  
Old October 1st, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
Yes, unless you use the overflow.
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Old October 2nd, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
"Sly" on the SWF site is getting great growth in just 6 days from his trashcan-scrubber with built-in surge device:

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.
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And what is this.... dinner?

Click the image to open in full size.


...Nope, it a week of growth from just one side (the 6500K side) of my acrylic unit.
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Old October 2nd, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
Very funny! So this is what could have been growing in his aquarium but instead the nutrients are growing in his trash can scrubber. Any pics of his tank?? : )
Jess is offline  
Old October 3rd, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
I'll ask him for some.
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Old October 5th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
Reminder Of The Day:

Lighting Duration: Set up your scrubber lighting on a timer for 18 hours ON, and six hours OFF. The scrubber itself won't care when those hours are, but if you want, you can have them on when your display lights are off, so as to help balance pH in the system.
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Old October 6th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
.
Here is a note to skimmer manufacturers, as well as manufacturers of acrylics/plastics, lighting, and pumps. One way to benefit from scrubbers is to start building them, so as to make life easier for aquarists. There is no patent, and I have no interest in building them, although designing them is fun. Promoting them is fun too. But manufacturing is not my thing, so hopefully some folks will start making at least a simple version (like the Santa Monica 120) available. Look at it like this: Manufacturers of skimmers currently make an expensive product that has pumps and acrylic/plastic parts. Manufacturers of lighting currently make an expensive product that has bulbs, ballasts, and frames. Neither of these products has all these parts in one unit.

Scrubbers, however, do. Instead of viewing scrubbers as a make-at-home rig that stops people from buying skimmers, manufacturers should instead view scrubbers as a piece of aquarium equipment they can manufacture which includes acrylic, plastic, lights, pumps, timers, fans and complex parts, all woven together. Imagine the designs that could be achieved which would allow the most water flow, the most air, the most light, all in the least space possible, and for the best price. It's a designer's dream. Sure, many folks will continue making their own scrubbers, but at some point these folks will upgrade their tanks and will not want to hassle with building larger versions. So, here are some things I thought of that manufacturers could offer:


o A simple low-cost design; just an acrylic box, preferably with a mirror inside finish. The customer would add all other parts. This is what I built.

o Complex designs that would be needed to fit into the many different places that aquarists have: Above a crowded sump, behind the tank, vertically next to tank, next to a tank in a stand-alone furniture finish, or on the wall as a decorative item.

o Skimmers designed to work with scrubbers, by having one connect/feed the other.

o Scrubber lights with built-in timers, for nanos.

o Ultra small scrubber boxes for nanos, possibly with self-contained LED lights, the size of a cell phone.

o Nano hoods with scrubbers built into them.

o Sumps with built in scrubbers, instead of built-in wet/dry's.

o Display lighting-fixtures with scrubbers connected to the back of them, such that the scrubber uses the same light.

o Tank options, such as scrubber-on-backside.

o Auto-cleaners that clean/scrub/scrape the screen automatically.

o Hand/electric tools specialized to clean the screen.

o RODI sprayers that give the screen a FW spray periodically (to kill pods), possibly doubling as a top off.

o Non-destructive pumps to get pods from the sump to the display.

o Self-priming pumps built in to scrubber, for placement on top of displays with no sump.

o Quick-disconnect waterfall pipes.

o Double and triple thick screens, which allow algae to stick better during cleanings.

o Multiple screens, with large areas for large tanks.

o Ultra thin LED powered flexible screens, which could weave around obstacles.

o Fan on a temp controller, to keep water temp preset.

o Uniquely shaped T5 panels, such as 12 X 12, to perfectly fit a screen.

o Safety switches that cut off the lights and/or flow during certain conditions.



A great first model could be targeted to smaller tanks (SW and FW) that may not have sumps, and thus would include a self-priming pump inside the scrubber. It would sit on or near the display and would pull water up to it. It would drain right back to the display, and would give the customer the option of letting the algae grow out the drain (and into the tank to feed the fish), or removing the algae as it comes out of the drain, before it gets to the display.
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Old October 8th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
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Results of the Day:


"darkblue" on the RP site says, "Been running a 4"x10" OHF [over head filter scrubber] version on my 15g for almost 2 months already. My nitrate reading started dropping after around 3 weeks. I've had 0 Nitrates for a month now. I'm using Seachem for my tests. The screen is just partially covered with what I think are patches of brown turf."

And "jfdelacruz", also on the RP site, says "I recently implemented this on my tank. I [originally] had an overhead filter to try and filter out a lot of detritus, and changed out filter foams every week. nitrates and phosphates were high and I had brown algae (kinda like cyano) on my sandbed already too thick to fight. I did the 2 days lights out and it took out the brown film algae. I bought a 10watt fluorescent light from carti and then cut a right fit cross-stitch cloth as my screen and layed it flat on my OHF and took out the foam. lights are on 24/7 [temporarily]. I'm on my 5th day and algae is basically non existent in the tank, while the whole cloth is covered in the same brown film algae that covered my sandbed and is starting to grow the green algae. 10,000K ung fluorescent and after day 2 it already had algae on it. on day 3 the whole cloth was lightly covered. im still waiting for day 10. also Im going on a 2nd week no water change just to try it out and so far everything's doing good. coral's are happy and clam is happy. inverts and clownfish is also happy and eating lots of cyclopeeze everyday!


Also, I'm putting together a little series on how nutrients work in our aquariums. It will hopefully help folks better understand what affects what, and how we can make things work their best. Here's the first one below. I use Salifert for my testing, so I'll just refer to them:
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Click the image to open in full size.
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Old October 9th, 2008  
Fish Helper
 
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Builds Of The Day:

This one is from "Sandztorm" on the RP site; it is a version of the nano that I listed on page 1, where a simple screen replaces the foam filter in the hood, and a light is added on top:

Click the image to open in full size.




This one from "Coopattack" on the FG site wraps the PVC around the bottom of the screen to hold it in place:

Click the image to open in full size.


Click the image to open in full size.




Here is a trough version by "framerguy" on the CR site (the lights have since been lowered closer to the trough):

Click the image to open in full size.


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This one from "Labman" on the MD site wanted a taller one in a more narrow size, so he attached two plastic canvas screens together:

Click the image to open in full size.




"Johntanjm" from the MD site placed screens on both sides of the bulb, instead of a bulb on both sides of the screen:

Click the image to open in full size.




"Mrobo77031" on the UR site just attached the pipe and lights to the stand, and put some reflective material around it:

Click the image to open in full size.




And "Mudshark" on the MASA site just drilled the pvc with holes, and wrapped a screen around it:

Click the image to open in full size.
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