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October 7th, 2007
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Master Of Fish Poo!
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yea.. that's what   s always say..   
glad it's all coming along Tim. Hopefully any obstacles will be out of the way to getting everything in order. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timandkaren
BTW, the aliens haven't taken me away, nor have the fish rebelled, just produced again! I have gained another 100+ mollies this week, yet more angels, more guppies, and the bettas are growing well!
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October 8th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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Not very clear pics, but you can get the idea of how the breeding tanks will work:
The water will be up to the top of the tank, with a central access through the front. The principal is that the nest will be above the access, safe from disturbance, and the female has plenty of room to escape the male after sporning. We will be able to fish her out from the bottom of the tank, and the male the same way after the first week. The eggs and fry will be undesturbed at the top of the column at all times.
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October 8th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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cool...thats for the bettas right?
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October 9th, 2007
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Master Of Fish Poo!
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sounds like a well considered design and i can't wait to see it all in operation! 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timandkaren
Not very clear pics, but you can get the idea of how the breeding tanks will work:
The water will be up to the top of the tank, with a central access through the front. The principal is that the nest will be above the access, safe from disturbance, and the female has plenty of room to escape the male after sporning. We will be able to fish her out from the bottom of the tank, and the male the same way after the first week. The eggs and fry will be undesturbed at the top of the column at all times.
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October 9th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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Better pics
These pics show the breeding tank off better. I am leak testing it, so added a little blue to the water to show where it is and give a better idea of how it works. You can clearly see the access and column features in these images:
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October 9th, 2007
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Master Of Fish Poo!
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ok.. someone HAS to say it.. "OIC!"  looks very cool and i love the idea! i wouldn't have ever come up with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timandkaren
These pics show the breeding tank off better. I am leak testing it, so added a little blue to the water to show where it is and give a better idea of how it works. You can clearly see the access and column features in these images:
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October 9th, 2007
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Fish Addict
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Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's cool. I like that idea.  |
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October 9th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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the real test will come when I put it to use! From my experience with the column tank, the fish will have no problem using this tank for breeding. They love the top of the column in the big version, so I have no doubt that they will like this one just as much.
The fact that it reduces risk to the bubblenests is a real bonus, as is the fact that there will be no need to disturb the fry while they grow through the crutial first couple of weeks. All feeding and maintenance can be done from the access area, so even when the fish need netting, they can be caught at the bottom, saving any disturbance for the fry.
Once the adults are out, the fry will have free run of the tank until they are big enough to place into grow-out tanks. With a dozen of these breeders, I should be able to cope with not only bettas, but gouramis as well. If I am very lucky, I can use the bottom for bristlenose and cories to breed as well!
I still have to put the drainage and circulation system in, but that is very simple with the one side made of polycarbonate.
The plan for this is that the drainage will be by gravity, with a screened drain inserted in the access area at high-water, to control the water level, and the circulation will be done by the inflow of the cleaned water being pumped through the side wall and piped internally to the other end and then forced upwards into the flute. This will force gentle circulation of the water throughout the tank, not just in the bottom, which has been a problem in the past.
This tank has a capacity of around 12 gallons, so it only needs around 36 gallons an hour to supply sufficient fresh water.
This will save the need for water changes within the tank, again, something that has posed challenges in the column tank. Any water changes will be done via the sump filter, and therefore not disturb the breeding tanks at all.
With all 12 breeding tanks on the same sump filter, other than a little bottom cleaning, they shouldn't need to be touched. The water will be UVC treated as well, avoiding any harmful pathogens or algae growth.
if you were to have this as a standalone, you would need to use a small fluval type of filter to force the circulation, or a small HOB on which the flow can be controlled. (Just for those who like the design and want to try it themselves!) I can supply design info if you need it, but it's not for the faint hearted!
Last edited by timg; October 9th, 2007 at 03:17 PM.
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October 9th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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I forgot to mention earlier, that my old breeding tanks let me down today, so I had a hasty re-build to do! Here's the result:
A complete re-design, using all glass construction, but maintaining the multi-tank setup. It's amazing what you can do when you have to! Lol
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October 9th, 2007
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Master Of Fish Poo!
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 nicely done! |
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October 10th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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i came up with a way to get you a large bio wheel filter. go out and buy a shop vac filter, they are large enought to use and should hold up to water due to thats one of the reasons people use them!!
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October 10th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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that is absolutely brilliant! Now I know why I post my ideas here! That's one idea I never thought of. Thank you.
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October 11th, 2007
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Master Of Fish Poo!
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i could say that idea sucks, but the pun-police would arrest me!
very cool idea!  |
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October 11th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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yes no problem, i was walking though wal-mart (worthless store) and looked to the left of me, and i seen like semi small shop vac filters and there made for water and seem to hold up. may not be the same as bio wheel filters but should work for the time being. i first thought of you (sounds gay but its not) its all for the fish house haha. ill see if i can figure out a generator set up for this set up
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October 13th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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A detailed explanation of the new breeding tank design:
The design of the tank is specifically geared to bubble nest breeders for the following reasons:
1. Problems with removing the female after sporning
2. Surface disturbance by filters or water changing
3. Temperature changes between water and air while developing the labarynth organ
4. having adequate escape room for the female during pre-sporning, sporning and post-sporning
5. removing the male when the time is right without netting fry.
These are all problems that occur during the sporning and raising of bettas and gouramis. We have all broken the nest while trying to catch the female, had problems with filtration, or lack of it, water changes and most commonly, temperature differences causing pneumonia in the young.
This breeding tank has been designed to overcome all these difficulties and more. The way it works is as follows:
When all set up properly, all the tanks will be filtered through one sump, using 4 stage filtration. (The 4th stage is UVC treatment for pathagens etc.)
Water changes will be made via the sump, avoiding any disturbance of the tanks in the system. The flow and return system will keep all levels constant at all times, which avoids the problem of water level changes during the nesting stage, where if the nest is built touching the glass sides, it risks being brioken up during a water change. Most people avoid doing any changes during this time for that reason.
The 2 storey construction has been designed with a definite purpose. Bettas normally breed in shallow water. The water at the top is 150mm deep on the one side, and 400mm deep on the other side. The bettas build their nest in the top above the shelf, where the water is shallow. I have a pair that are doing this right now! This means that the male doesn't have to go far to retrieve the eggs if they fall from the nest. The female on the other hand, has plenty of room to escape the males attentions by swimming to the lower part of the tank, where cover is provided for her, avoiding serious damage during the mating. She also has a refuge if I am a little slow removing her afterwards, as the male will stay close to the nest.
Removal of the female is simply a matter of netting her in the lower level, without any disturbance of the nest. The male is removed the same way, when the time is right, simply by attracting him down with food and then netting him, again, without disturbing the young fry, as they will stay close to the surface in the top section for the first 2 weeks or so.
When the fry are growing, the risk of pneumonia is minimised because the air they use when developing the labarynth is always the same temperature as the water, since the top is sealed. There is a 12mm air space at the top when the tank is filled for this purpose. Feeding of the fry is simple too, using a syringe to inject the BBS and micro-worms into the top section. Any excess is removed through the filter system when it falls to the bottom of the tank.
The fry will start to swim down at about 3-4 weeks, by which time they are out of danger, and can be moved to grow-out tanks. Again, this is made simple by shutting off the water inflow and draining the tank down. By use of a large bore tube, the fry are suctioned into the recepticle and then just poured into the grow out tank. The water quality and conditions will be near identical, since all the tanks will be using the same type of filtration, so even aclimatisation won't be a major issue.
I have trialled the system on a much larger version with great success, both with bettas and dwarf gouramis. The water depth was much greater there, with up to 4' of water, but the fry still thrived and grew well, with few fatalities. I am convinced that this smaller version will have similar, if not better results due to the reduced depth and less risk of water pressure injury on the fry.
Another less obvious advantage with this design is the space-saving design. Because there is no need to access the top of the tank, as with conventional breeding setups, they can be stacked directly on top of each other. This saves both space and shelving. They can be stacked up to 4 high, literally glass to glass, so long as they are all the same size, without the need for any shelves between them.
They will all be centrally filtered, so water changing is not so frequent, and as they are all connected to the same filter, it is much easier to maintain the water quality and temperature.
Which is easier to look after? ten tanks of 15 gallons, or one system of 150 gallons? With the advanced filtration that will be used in the final setup, there is very little risk of contamination, disease or even algae getting into the system!
The sump will contain gravel for removal of the larger particles, floss and a bio-wheel for bacterial nitrification, activated carbon for removal of trace elements and UVC for removal of spores and pathagens. The water coming in from the mains supply will be passed through a 0.06 micron filter to remove chlorine and chloromines, heavy metals and other detremental substances. The water will be heated in the sump before being pumped into the tanks. The inflow will create a gentle circulation inside the breeders and levels will be controlled by fine screened gravity overflow returns to the sump.
Another advantage is that when the female is removed, she can be put straight into another breeder and conditioned in there, ready to sporn again. The males can be put back into the barracks system and conditioned in there. I anticipate that there will be 4 breeding pairs in rotation using the 12 breeding tanks, so new sporns should be on a weekly basis. This will also make tracking the fry much easier, since they will be removed during week 4 and placed into covered grow-out tanks, avoiding the mixing of fry, which all too often happens, and clearing the tank for the next sporning.
This is to be the center of the fish house, with 80 grow-out tanks and 200+ barracks supporting it. But on a small scale, the tank can still work well, as I have one single tank in production now, using a fluval 2 to internally filter it, and a small 100W heater to maintain the temperature. Water changes on this tank are a little more difficult, as the level can only drop 25mm before air enters the upper section, so changes need to be small and often.
I hope this explains the reasons behind the design.
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October 13th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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still going great!
hey, i found a website about a guy building a 50,000 gal. home aquarium
let me see if i can find it real quick...it had some great info
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October 13th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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October 13th, 2007
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Fish Keeper
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I bet he's not on a water meter!
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