fish_newbie

Hey guys. I'm about to start my discus tank very soon. I've read in forums and countless pages about discus keeping. Most of them tend to say that to be able to raise juvenile discus to their fullsize and coloring you will need to raise them in a bare bottom tank. Reasons is that it is much easier to clean.

I'm currently have a 70G tall tank, that has gravel and a few plants with a piece of driftwood, not densely planted at all. I'm willing to do the daily 10% water changes to raise about 6-7 juvenile discus at 2inches to their full size. Do i really need to change to bare bottom tank? Daily water change is done by syphoning the gravel as well. The tank already has about 30 neons in it and is fully cycled (3 months). I think that the plants will give the discus a place to hide and make them feel safe, therefore their growth should be better. Plants also control the nitrate level in the tank also. So why is bare bottom tank be THAT much better?

Will I be successfully raise discus to their full potential in a gravel+plants tank? I need help from experts QUICK, as I will recieving them soon (2-3 weeks time). Thanks everyone

capekate

Hi,
it can be a tricky answer to your question... it depends! Depending on a number of things whether to go bare bottom or not. Many breeders, and those that show their Discus will always go bare bottom. Many home hobbyists will do so as well. Generally the consensus on their development and growth seems to lean towards, bare bottom= larger and healthier Discus. Personally, I kept my Discus in a planted tank as it was a hobby for me, a love of the fish and a nicely decorated tank.
You will have to keep up deep vacuuming and cleaning of your tank and watch for any signs of distress, such as the darkening up of their body. Keep an eye on the parameters and keep your water pristine.
So my advice would be, that if you really want to keep your discus in your gravel/planted tank, I dont see why you cant. Just stay on top with the upkeep of the tank and I think you will be fine.

fish_newbie

Thanks for the quick reply Kate. I also have another question about selecting discus. In my area there are no discus breeder. The LFS that i normal shop at is quite professional and they have 100+ discus of varieties of different breeds. I've read your discus care sheet but it doesn't mention that darkening of the body, does this mean that they are sick/stress? All tank have a few discus that are darkened a little bit so does it mean I shouldn't buy discus from this tank? Can discus that are darkened return to their normal colors? And also while we are on the topic, I've seen discus with black bars on their body, are these just there because of their breed? Or there is something to it?

Sorry for many questions, I just want to have a wide knowledge before purchasing this expensive fish. Thanks

dee34

hi there ive always kept discis in a planted tank with sand and driftwood its as close to there natural habitat . water changes are a must i do 3 a week , the hardest part was getting the fish to settle it took mine about 4 weeks .choosing discis in the LFS can be tricky tho depending on how they are kept . they can get stressed so i tend to look for a round disc type of shape and sometimes if they are not in good shape they will a white film over there eyes i also noticed that some discis can look quite frail looking i tend to stay clear of them.as far as i know the black lines are when they get excited but not sure , but if the boby of the fish is dark its prob very stressed or sick ..

Slug

I'm the hobbyist that does the Barebottom approach. For many reasons, and for many reasons i think its better. It kinda depends on what you want to get out of your discus.

Future breeders, showfish, and generally overall bigger and rounder fish are usually found in bare tanks. Most breeders pound their discus with food. We're talking feeding the juvis about 6 meals per day. Obiviously with that much food, you're going to be doing many many WCs. Its this process of feeding and WC constantly that grow the biggest and best discus. Also with a Barebottom system, its easier to focus more on the fish, at least for me personally....thats why i'm in the hobby, for the fish. Everything else around them is secondary.

Its to my belief and personal experience that plants or structure do not always make discus feel safe. This is a common misconception. For wilds, yes maybe this is true. But domestics are brought up 90% of the time in bare tanks through breeders or wholesalers. They have no idea what plants and wood are and really could care less. If you start with healthy happy fish, you should see them rush the glass when you walk in the room looking for food. If you get them from a not so great source, expect shy, stressed, possibly sick fish to start. And thats when they hide, because people start with shy fish. Providing them the means to hide only fortifies their behavior to do so. IMO at least.

If you are just going for discus in a planted setup and could care less about having top quality show fish, by all means raise them up in a planted tank. It can be done, but just not as efficiently as a bare tank.

Discus are fish that show their moods. Darkening can be a sign of a lot of things. Stress, sickness, breeding. You must pair the darkening with something else. Is the fish dark and pressed into a corner of the tank? If so thats a bad sign. Is the fish dark but flaring its fins swimming around? Thats a good sign. If the fish looks sick, don't buy it. I wouldn't say you can't buy out of that tank, unless its obivious that more then one fish in the tank is sick, but be sure to QT your new arrivals before contaminating your other fish at home. Discus can make hasty exits to heaven or very quick turnarounds, so you never know what you can nurse back to full health.

Stress bars. Another tricky subject because they are part of the discus mood swings. Some strains (or breeds as you call it) have them constantly. Others have them but are very faded. Most Juvi discus will show some bars, its part of the natural color. Most of the new domestic strains will not show stress bars when adults though. Usually the darker they are, the more something is bothering the discus. Could be as simple as another fish in the tank, could be more then that and something to do with the water. I wouldn't worry to much about stress bars. Again, pair it with something else. Just make sure fins arn't clamped, body isn't overly dark, make sure the eyes are clear and not cloudy, etc. Also don't go for the 2-3" with full color. A fish 2-3" in size should not be full color yet, but should just be getting a hint of color. Full color at this size can indicate either a stunted fish that is older but hasn't grown or a hormone fed fish.

When selecting discus i go through a checklist in order in my head. Heres how i would evaluate a discus. First i choose one in the tank and then:

Ok, fish is in overall good health. Not pressed in a corner, not to dark overall, the eye is clear, no white poop hanging out, fins are erect. Fish has a nice forehead, thick not paper thin. Belly is not overly bloated but not sunken in. Body shape is pretty good, round not a football. Fish is a little shy, but curious. Pattern is nice.

I go from general health, to body looks, to pattern looks. Eventually you will do all the general health inspections in less then a second and can decide when you walk up to the tank whats a healthy discus and whats not. Then its just a matter of shape and color.

If at all possible and you can get some pictures of the shop or their discus i can help you even more by pointing out good and bad examples of fish. If not just go to the shop and observe. Ask to see them being fed and see if they eat.

I'm no Discus expert, but they are my passion in this hobby so feel free to ask any questions!

fish_newbie

Thank you Slug and Capekate for spending your time helping me. I've read Kate's care sheet and have a look at Slug's discus collection even before i started this thread. I think your passion for discus is incredible, shown obviously by the gorgeous look on your fish (I love your cobalt ). With all your help, I think I'm ready to take on the King of Freshwater Aquarium now. If I need any help in the future hope you all will help me. Thanks

capekate

Your welcome.. and best of luck with your future Discus!