docB

First off I apologize, I suspect this may be a long post.

I have a 55 g planted tank that is hopefully going to have discus in it very soon.
I started it April 1 and just have 3 corys, two otos and 7 temporary white clouds.
my chemistry is getting there: ammonia-0, nitrites-0, nitrates-10ppm, pH 7.7. The water here is very hard-100 -110
Aqua clear 70 biofilter with peat added. (water has never gotten REALLY clear-lot 'o particles) 260watts of light for 55g (good for the plants but the discus - not so much)
I store water in a 35g tank for bi-weekly WC's.

I have been scouring the net soaking in the info (2 puns in 1 sentence!) and have overloaded. I have read too much and some of it directly conflicts with each other so I want to lay out what I have, what I want and what I need to do.

What I have you see above.

What I want is a planted tank with the corys, otos, five discus and a dozen rummey nose tetras.

?#1: My Ph is higher than ideal. (I am not considering breeding right now) Do I leave it alone minding the rule that discus don't mind as long as it doesn't fluctuate? Or do I need to buy a RO/DI unit, float valve etc ($) add lost minerals at each WC? I like getting into the nerdy techy stuff of buying STUFF valves equip. etc but cant really afford it. So I am leaning towards leaving the hardness/Ph where it is out of the tap and hoping that if its constant the discus will be happy.
?#2: My plants are doing OK I would give them a grade of B but the CO2 is tempting (another $) this would help the plants and also lower the PH somewhat. But I am afraid I will always be "chasing" the CO2/Ph.
?#3: I read discus need "oxygenated" water. Does the CO2 affect this? Should I get an air stone and air pump?

So to summarize: do I really need to get a RO/ DI unit, CO2 setup etc?
I would rather spend some time actually enjoying the fish/scenery.
These five discus are going to be more high maintenance and $ than my wife and daughters!

BTW My previously documented dilemmas with snails and algae have seemed to turn the tide. At least for today. I think the lesson I learned was not to panic with each days revelations but look to the horizon and realized mother nature is in charge and everything will work out eventually. (This philosophy hold true also for my wine making and raising daughters, and probably for almost everything else rather than flash fires)

Sorry for the loong post. Thanks for letting me vent

Slug

Long post.

#1. pH. Don't sweat it to much. Fluctuations should bother you, otherwise leave it alone. I think your biggest question should be, will the pH have a significant swing after a water change. Discus are surprisingly very adaptable, as long as proper acclimation is performed to start. acclimate them to your water very slow and i don't see a problem as long as your pH doesn't swing during a water change. A few ticks either way should be fine....don't make it drastic.

#2. Yes the pH will probably drop with CO2, but you have a slight advantage with your water storage, because you hopefully can adjust it so theres not much change during a water change. Again, pH swings are you're worst enemy right now.

#3. Honestly, i've never heard this and have no idea on the mater. I havn't really noticed either way. You always want a good balance of O2 and CO2 for the plants and fish but i'm not sure what that balance is. However, O2 becomes less as temperatures in the tank rise, so i doubt something like an airstone would hurt. Do you use an airstone or similar device in your water storage tank?

Just be careful if you use CO2. To much CO2 can get screwy with the kH which can affect pH. Basically when CO2 combines with the H2O it becomes Carbonic Acid, which in a large amount can lower pH, stress the fish and cause disease. Use it in moderation and read up on how to properly use it before you start pumping it in. Test kits are a must. Most planted tankers don't run their CO2 24/7, but rather while the lights are on. So all of them experience a drop in pH over night...you just don't want anything sudden.

Can plants be grown without CO2? Of course, CO2 in most cases just makes them better. Do you need CO2 for your tank? Eh, personal decision. I personally would rather focus mainly on the fish but i understand the need for some people to provide a nature type of environment for them. Its really up to you.

As for the RO unit, again its up to you. Also kind of depends on your tap water. There are many cases of sucessful discus keeping and raising in straight tap water, myself included. The discus can live without it, they can thrive without it assuming you followed proper acclimation procedures to start with, they can even breed without one. You have an advantage having a water storage tank, and the RO unit could be quite useful to you, but its not a MUST. Your intentions at this time arn't to breed, but sometimes people have problems with eggs not hatching, or parents not yielding large enough spawns so they must soften the water....and then an RO unit comes in handy. I'd never use straight RO water, its to barren of minerals and such....if you use it i'd use a 50/50 mix of RO and Tap.

I know I preach it quite a bit, but there are many other things that go into successful discus keeping. My main point is to start with healthy fish. Start with healthy fish and acclimate them properly and you should be fine. Just don't swing your pH to much at once.

I have discus madness.

docB

yes this is partly what I wanted to hear.
The more I try to make everything "perfect" the more I am chasing my tail.
If the discus can deal with my hard water with a 7.7PH that would simplify my life.
The CO2 question can be put off to see how the plants progress - but in a perfect world I would have like to have all that settled before fish - but at that rate I wouldn't have fish until next year!

So people do not commonly have some air stone happening? What is the advantage?

Slug

Usually the people i talk to always keep barebottom tanks, like myself. So we are always only running sponge filters, and they put enough O2 in the water to suit our needs. An airstone can't hurt, i just always hear of people using other means...usually different filters. Usually the only time i hear of people using an airstone is for something like a water holding tank. That or a small powerhead.

Airstones have their goods and bads like everything else. They are small but put out good O2, they can be hidden for the most part, and some fish enjoy playing in their bubbles. The bads (IMO) are they can be unsightly if you can't hide them, and they present a very un-natural bubble wall effect. A lot of times HOB filters put enough O2 in the water by themselves. If you're using a canister filter you could probably install a spray bar and get O2 in that way.

Lifesabeach

Hi. Thought I'd give my 2 bobs worth re: airstones. I didn't like the unnatural look of the bubbles. To fix that, I used PVC pipe end caps positioned over the stones and held down by slate. This gave an erratic release of bubbles - different sizes, timing and release points that you can play around with until you get the look you want.