lilstorm

I have a bit of an issue!

I have a 125 gallon tank that has been set up since december of 08, so not long i will admit.
tank stays between 82 and 84 degrees and only deviates slightly when i do my daily water change.
I change close to 55 gallons of the water every day, no chemicals, just aged, air-ated and heated water that is 24 hours old.

I have now three Discus fish in the tank and no other fish. (there is a small snail population, but every time I see one I pull the lil invader out)

I have no rocks on the bottom of the tank as I am trying to get the fish to breed but no luck as of yet.



Anyway, I HAD 4 discus fish in the tank, one started out seemingly ok but then progresivly started "leaning" one way or another, then it went to head or mouth pointing down to the bottom of the tank all the time and back fin or butt pointing to the top of the tank all the time. He did seem to be breathing slower than the rest of the fish through the whole mess, I really didnt know what to do for him...
Well he finally bit the dust yesterday.

Today I did my usual water change, and now my smallest discus fish (turquoise discus) is doing the same thing, leaning too one side...
I DONT WANT TO LOOSE ANOTHER FISH!
He seems to be breathing normally, compaired to the other fish in the tank, no visibal damage to him that I can see, water test's are fine, great & dandy!
WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?

I feed them fd bloodworms, and a beef heart, shrimp, & spinach mix that I make myself.

THoughts?
Suggestions?
Ideas?
ARGH!

Attached Images

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Angela_96

What is your ammonia, n itrite, nitrates? pH?

agabr123

so you're not treating the water before you add it to the tank? just letting it sit?

pepetj

So many things can go wrong with sensitive fish like Discus...

If you cycled your tank properly, and it has established colonies of beneficial bacterias, then you should look for answers elsewhere. The way to answer this question is by measuring Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates.

With Discus fish, I believe you need to keep Nitrates around 5ppm. Water changes as you are doing actually should address this.

Did you check if your source water is free of chloramines? If not, you won't have chlorine after 24 hours "aging" but chloramines, if used, will certainly be present for as much as a week.

Please do the following easy REDOX test: take some tank water in a disposable plastic container, add some Methylene Blue. If the MB color fades, even if just a bit, your tank's REDOX potential is likely in the healthy range. If not... your REDOX potential values are likely to be positive, which might be too much for such sensitive fish. One way to address this is by UV Sterilization.

Please read the following articles:
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....Potential.html
http://www.americanaquariumproducts....ilization.html

What is the KH and GH of your tank? Discus health could be compromised by water that is not too soft/acidic, as far as I know.

Do you have adequate complementary aeration?

What is the filtration system you have there?

Do your Discus have plants or decor to get cover? If not they might get too stressed and be prone to diseases.

Hope you can work this out, and welcome to Fishlore

Pepe
Santo Domingo

lilstorm

I only have a quick dip test strip kit, so this is what it says:
nitrate: is in the "safe range" @ between 0 & 20 PPM NO COLOR on this square for test
nitrite: in the "safe range" @ 0 and .5 ppm no color on this square
Hardness (gh): between 0 & 25 ppm or very soft
chlorine: between 0 and .5 ppm
alkalinity: between 0 and 40 ppm (low)
ph: measures between 6.2 and 6.8

I have an aerator that is dealing with the two sponge filters that came with the tank.
I have a power head just on one end of the tank to help with aeration and circulation of the water, thou i know discus do not like currents in their habbitat.

I did do your test for redox, and i didnt "mix in" the methylene blue just added one drop of it to one 12 oz mason jar full of fish tank water, the blue didnt stay as dark as it was when it came out of the mb contaner, but dispersed itself throughout the water... and the water is now blue but... how long do i wait?

Argh! sorry! I have a little bit of decor for them to get cover with, but not much I am trying to find some amazon sword plants to put in there but have had no luck yet!

lilstorm

Oh, I forgot to say...

The water that I do my change outs with is aerated for 24 hours before it gets added to the tank and heated to be AT LEAST 82 degrees.

I was told that was all the more I needed to do for it, that all or most of the clorene would dissipate with an aerator and no lid on it. Seems to be working so far.
Non of my water has come back with any trace of clorene on my test strips

agabr123

chlorine will dissipate but a lot of cities now put chloramines in the water which will not dissipate, i'd definitely suggest using a water conditioner because your water could also have heavy metals in it, which Prime removes as well

lilstorm

The water that I do my change outs with is aerated for 24 hours before it gets added to the tank and heated to be AT LEAST 82 degrees.

My guy said that all he does is let it age for 24 hours, if I had another 55 gallon drum (more heaters and another aerator) then I would have two agers going at once so that my water would then be at least 48 hours old when I put it in the tank.

My guy also said he adds no chemicals at all and gets the most productivity out of the discus fish by doing 95% water change outs every 24 hours...
With a 125 gallon tank and only ONE 55 gallon water container obviousley I cant do a 95% changout so I have to do what I can too keep the water clean and consistent for them.

Do you think my methods of ageing the water could be contributing to the issues with the fish?

agabr123

it's possible, like i said above the chlorines will dissipate but chloramines and heavy metals will not. unless you're using well water then you should probably add Prime, and even if you're using well water i'd rather be safe than sorry. i'm not sure if that's the the issue with your fish, but it could be having an effect on them since they are so sensitive

Slug

Yeah you should use some type of Dechlor product even with aging the water. I like it as a safety net.

Are your fish doing the headstand after a water change? Are they eating? Do you see them eat? Do they spit the food back out? Any sign of white poo? Are their colors ok or are they dark? How do they act after each water change? Are they bloating at all? Are the eyes cloudy?

Sorry for all the questions i'm trying to help!

lilstorm

Yes the fish are eating, no they dont really spit it out.
Dont see any bloating, no cloudy eyes...
Not really seeing a headstand after a water change...
Not seeing any white poo, there is however one fish that seems to like to stay really dark brown or almost black, the other two fish are full color and pretty.

I did get a Mardel Live PH & live NH test today, the ph on that one says that the PH is between 7 & 8, i dont have any ph down... so what do i do??!!

These fish are not used to chemicals at all, I did go out and get 3 amazon sword plants today, in the hopes that will make them happier and help out with any other issues they might be having at the moment. I also got some Top Fin Bacteria Supplement since the tank is so new.

I also added a 14" bubble aerator to the back of the tank, to eliminate aeration as a possiable issue in this situation.

MeGustaUnaPez926

I don't know enough about discus to help you here, but I do have a suggestion. I see you live near me, I suggest you take your questions to The Fish Store. Its this great little store near the Whole Foods in Seattle. I can give you the address. It'll be a bit of a drive from Everett, but I think its worthwhile. Do you already go there?

Slug

pH is fine. Stability is the key. You should be fine with 7-8pH.

Dechlor isn't really chemicals per say, not really the kind that are going to do anything to the fish. They don't have to be "used" to dechlor to use it. It just detoxifies any ammonia in the water, and removes chlorine/chloramines that the city puts into your water. So if anything it helps.

If they are constantly doing a headstand it could be a swim bladder or internal problem. If they arn't then its pretty baffling, and has to be something that only irritates them at that point in time.

agabr123

normally i'd agree, but discus are so sensitive that they really need a lower pH. that's probably part of the reason that they aren't doing so well.

Slug

Lies. All 20 something of mine are kept in tap water with a pH of 8.

Lucy

I'm really sorry your fish aren't doing well.

I don't know anything about discus, but reading over this thread, it would be a good idea to use a conditioner that removes chloramines.
As pointed out by some of the above posters, chloramines don't dissapate after 24 hours. It can take up to a month.
Another thing comes to mind. When the water sits out, it gets to room temp. It's best if the water you add during a water change is as close to the temp of the tank you can get to avoid shock.
It's worth a try.

Good luck, you have a beautiful tank and Discus are beautiful fish.

agabr123

i'm glad that it has worked for you but everything i've read and everyone i've known that has kept discus has always kept their pH below or at least around 7. now it's true that since a lot of discus are tank-bred, their requirements for pH aren't quite as strict as some "purists" would say, but IMHO 8 is too high and in the long run could cause them some problems.

Slug

I know many breeders that breed them in pH of 8. As long as its stable its fine. Chec www.simplydiscus.com/forum . I think you will find a lot of myths about discus debunked. Mostly involving the water they need.

agabr123

I'll have to check it out, thanks for the link!

JFSUPRE

Heres something to be honest. I've used two brands of test strips. API, and the other I don't recall. Both would give me a reading in the safe zone on Nitrate and Nitrite. I then on a whim bought a liquid master test kit. Did a test, and they were WAY off. I don't recommend the test strips.

Shawnie

these threads are months old and im sure its figured out now