Jewels

The weather suddenly went cold and wet Anzac day weekend here down south.
Problem no. (1) was the first thing I noticed when I woke up was that what I had been sold as male Blue Platie had become super aggressive and was attacking everybody! One female Blue Platie was dead and another one lying on the floor. I promptly isolated him ready to take back to the shop. I had 3 new Cobalt Discus so I wasn't going to tolerate that!
Problem no. (2) was that I foolishly followed somebodies wrong advice, when doing the necessary water change (which was due anyway). He had told me to adjust pH with pH up and pH down powders in 2 buckets and then add it to the tank. This resulted in 3 Cobalt Discus and 2 Angels with severe symptoms of chill (according to my aquarium book). They sulk on the gravel, with rapidly flapping pectoral fins and go nowhere, while gulping a lot. OK, The book told me the treatment: which was to gradually raise the temperature 2-3 degC over 2 days, and add a little salt (I decided to do this with a serve of brine shrimp). A little hot water in the bottle to 26 degC (no buckets for refills!)
Problem no. (3) was the serious one....My lovely pet Discus went all wonky, swimming upside down, flopping down on the gravel and not eating. They all looked really sick. Kinda gaunt and hagard. All the wrong colours. So I rang around town Monday morning and found out who was considered Discus expert. He sorted out things, by kindly letting me take an account (which I will pay) for some phosphate and pollutant removal mixture and some special frozen Discus food. This has got "Alpha" and "Delta" up and running and looking healthy again, but by the time I got home from his shop, which was a long drive, I had lost their mate "Beta". I agree with his diagnosis of Phosphate poisoning, as a similar thing once happened to me from some sort of medication I once needed. Even though I am very fussy about getting doses etc right.
I went back to the shop that sold me an agro Molly instead of a Platie, complained about the whole bad advice thing and got credit for another Cobalt Discus when they get some more in, OK? I'm happy with that resolution. A bit grieved about the death.....
My question is this: How many and how much (%) water changing is going to be necessary over the next month? I was warned that Sodium Biphosphate is hard to get out of the water. I'm getting conflicting advice ranging from daily to twice weekly (as well as every 2 days and every 3 days). All my fish have names and are my loved pets as much as my dog, so I really want to get them all totally recovered from it all. All I will put in is chlorine remover!
Does anybody know of anything else that would help? I mean Gosh, my poor, poor fish! Aggression, chill, and then poisoning because the water has turned alkaline after the drought. I think I'll take my boyfriend's advice and invest in some springwater for the fishtank later. (Unless somebody disputes his advice).
I can remember 20 years of happy tropical freshwater community tanks that ran successfully with nil pH testing at all! Just regular water changes, with more in summer than winter, because it gets hot here. However, Discus are a new ballpark, even though they were happy and healthy before my tank got damaged during a breakin I unfortunately had.
Advice, I must warn you, (after all that).....is something I will treat in a statistical fashion (I am a biologist). If you don't understand I'm saying - I mean majority rules! I look forward to hearing from you all. Please help. I understand my tank ecology, and feel like everybody in there is part of their community!
Cheers Jewels
PS:Happy Outcome (after so many water changes that I've totally lost count).........!
I followed the advice given by local Discus expert, and now finally have three happy and healthy Discus....'Alpha' the Cobalt is the survivor, and is turning aqua blue on the fins. 'Beta' is a big blue Snakeskin X Turqouise, and has blue squiggles (alternating with stripes) and the new 'Delta' the other Cobalt is such a gorgeously brilliant blue that he is my favorite.
I refuse to take just anyone's advice without checking credentials ever again!
The other thing I'm doing is feeding lots of small feeds of the frozen Discus food as Capekate recommended. I alternate with flake food so that they don't become picky feeders. My boyfriend recommends a little regular boiled cold spinach, as another tip....Only the Discus feed on this and all look very, very happy afterwards......All's well that ends well. Thanx for your advice .
PS: Nitrates/Nitrites/Ammonium and pH all check out just fine, OK? All other tank members happy as well...
Cheers Jewels

Shawnie

Hi jewels...welcome to fishlore!!!! so sorry about all your fishies being sick its deff heart breaking....I noticed in your info, it says you dont know about the nitrogen cycle..is that true?? being a biologist I wasnt sure if you just didnt fill that in...if not, heres a link to help

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

theres quite a few discus owners here that im sure will help out asap ...I just wanted to welcome you and hope things get better

capekate

Hello Jewels and welcome to fishlore
I also keep Discus and really love them and have had a few deaths as well. Im not sure what advice I can give you, with you being a biologist and all. And you have some helpful folks where you live. But I can say, that from experience with a lot of folks here, we do not use any PH down or up. Messing with the PH can be pretty traumatic for you fish. And if not done correctly can make matters worse. Im sure you have done all the measurements correctly. So we tend to stay away from that mixture ( for the most part).
I know what you mean about the Discus going 'wonky' all over the tank.Its frightening to see, and we assume they really injure themselves and they can! After a episode like that, its not unusual to see them laying at the bottom of the tank breathing heavy and we think.. this is it, im going to loose this fish. But IMO they are just in shock and eventually come out of it. If of course there are no other problems going on at the time.
I assume you have a water test kit and have been regularly checking your water perimeters? If they are off, your Discus will surely let you know by their behavior.
Phosphate is another matter and along with water conditions like you mention, over feeding can also lead to this. I wish I had bookmarked a real fantastic site that targeted this issue really well with studies supporting the article. I will have to see if I can find it for you. It also had case studies on what helped to get rid of the phosphate as well.
I do a wc in my Discus/SA cichlid tank every three days at about 35% wc. Most Discus owners do it every other day. I just do water tests for awhile and I know when it needs to be done.
Other than that, I really cannot offer much advice, but sure hope you get it under control and do not loose any more of these fabulous fish!
good luck..
~ kate

Jewels

Hi Shawnie,
Thanx for the link and Yes, Yes, Yes I DO understand the Nitrogen Cycle, having used Biological Undergravel Filtration ever since I first set up a tank. I did tick No to be honest (cos I'm an honest Australian Citizen), because I've not ever heard the term B4. I started my restocked tank right (according to instructions from the shop and the right bacteria) after the breakin 6mths ago (where the burglars killed everything - even my Java Fern). I was real busy cleaning up the shambles my place had been left in afterwards, and chasing up the local Police Reports for my stolen car, but the Aquarium was definately high on my list of priorities.
Let's just say that I'm a bit of a 'stress Artist' (to use a local term/lingo) and watching the tank where it's all nice and peaceful, helps me relax better than a diazepam tablet! (that's prescription Valium, in case you don't know).
My GP was also pushing me to get my tank sorted ASAP, because he likes the way I like to take a natural approach to my health as much as I do (right foods for not only the fish, but also for me - OK?).
If I follow my instincts as not only a Biologist but also a Healthcare Worker and do a 1/3 water change every second day......What I need to know is: is this too much? I don't want to shock them too much, but agree with someone else's comment along the lines of 'tough fish in their own way'. I can remember one of the old one's jumped clear out of the tank onto the ground, luckily while I was watching TV and home. My dog picked him/her up gently in her mouth and dropped him/her at my feet (isn't that sweet!) -so I threw him back into the tank and he survived! He/she was a little off colour for about a week, but I nursed him/her through it with more frequent and smaller feeds as well as some Brine Shrimp. And the dog is a Watchdog as well! I'm so pleased that she was gentle with those vice-like jaws!
Cheers Jewels