siouxsie

Hi to all. Desperately needing help with sick Clown Loaches. Have searched the net for 3 days and can't find any outline of the symptoms they are exhibiting.

Thursday : Did water test results showed zero amonia, nitrite and nitrate levels.

Sunday: Noticed Loaches developed flaking white/gray skin/scales mostly on top of head. Effecting the eye also. Went to the aquarium straight away and they suggested fungal treatment Pimafix. We did a water changed and added medication. Loaches seemed to improve almost instantly. Started searching the net for similar symptoms but cant find anything that seems to describe what they have.

Monday: Loaches seemed to be worse. We are continuing Pimafix treatment however no improvement seems evident. Still searching the net, but mostly posts refer to white spots. This literally looks like sunburn peeling of skin.

Tuesday: Youngest baby Loach passed. The largest and oldest Loach is now frequenting the top of the tank and still looking very ill. Rest of Loaches can't be seen and seem to be in hiding.

Going to the aquarium again tomorrow but people there don't seem to be very knowledgeable. If anyone has any idea what could be wrong and how to treat the problem it would be greatly appreciated if you could advise.
I'm extremely stressed and worried that the fish are suffering and I can't seem to find a way to help.

From research conducted so far I'm thinking it may possibly be ICH/ick however not sure. Will it effect them adversely if treated for this and it turns out to be something else?

Many thanks in advance for any advice given in this area.

PS: the only changes made were two silver dollars and two baby loaches added to tank mid May, and a new log added a few weeks ago. Not sure if this is at all relevant to the Loaches current bad health.

Shawnie

Welcome to fishlore!!

sorry for the loss of your fish baby

when you say water is fine, did you test it or the fish store? how old is the tank and what size it is? the gasping for air sounds like ammonia to me ...always when somethings wrong daily water changes of at least 50% treating the tap water with prime is a huge help..as far as the primafix, I know scaless fish dont do well with meds so hopefully this hasnt affected them more...

Butterfly

Sorry your Clowns are sick Before we begin I want to say sorry for all the questions but it's only way to help Normally if you have 0 Ammonia, Nitrites thats good but if you have 0 Nitrates also it sounds like your tank isn't cycled. How long has the tank been set up? What are you using to test the water with? Are you adding anything to the water? what kind of filter ?
While we wait to figure this out do a large water change and turn the tank temp up to at least 82F. Loaches need hghly oxygenated water and warm temps.
Carol

siouxsie

Hi Shawnie. Thanks for your reply and condolences on the baby. I get really upset when even a little fish dies and even had a cry! (

We use an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc Freshwater Master test kit and it read 0ppm mg/L for Ammonia but will take a sample to the aquarium first thing tomorrow morning to double check all results.

The medication seemed to have helped initially; the symptoms almost disappearing entirely for a while before returning with a vengeance. We have used it previously to fix a fungal growth on a Dwarf Gourami which it helped and didn't seem to effect the Loaches in any way.

After reading more about Ich/Ick I'm beginning to suspect this may be the problem. Possibly a sever case even though we didn't notice any initial symptoms such as the white spots everyone seems to describe. Maybe rearranging the aquarium when adding a big log really stressed them out - even though they seemed to love the new addition, spending all day exploring all the new nooks and holes.

At your suggestion will do daily water changes in which we add tropical conditioning crystals and water ager acn. Always seem to get problems anytime we do any changes to the aquarium but didn't think adding a log would have any effect. It's a real shame and dilemma as they were all doing so well, if not flourishing, till now.

Fingers crossed I can make them better. I hate seeing any living creature suffering and not being able to do anything.

The kindest of regards and thanks for your suggestions and help. Keeping fingers crossed and continuing my research.
Susan

Shawnie

Hi susan..although theres no ammonia, whats the nitrite and nitrate reading? ive never seen ich have no symtoms until death but I could be wrong..if you have the API liquid test kit, your own readings are more reliable than a fish store..most will sell you things you dont need..so get some readings for the nitrites and nitrates and then we have a place to start...sorry again

Chief_waterchanger

The white flaking appearance sounds horribly familiar.

We had that same thing happen to a mated pair of key-hole cichlids. Shawnie and Carol have it correct, I would raise the temperature to 82-83 degrees farenheit and do daily 25-50% waterchanges. The flaking means the slime coat has been compromised, so I would use a mild antibiotic (we use methylene blue, but others can be used.) Sadly we lost the key-hole cichlids that had this problem last week, but we did try the increased temperature and the methylene blue. One of the two held on for about 2 days longer than the other, so perhaps the treatment helped a little...

I wish you luck, Susan. Please keep us posted on how the fish turn out.

siouxsie

Hi Carol and thanks for your reply and help.

I keep a record of all test and use an Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc Freshwater Master Test Kit. We have had Nitrate levels but they have seemed to be reading zero for the last few months. Wasn't aware that a zero reading is an indication of problems as all fish seemed to be doing so well. New silver dollars and the other new baby loach which we got mid May are growing at a rapid rate.

We've had the fish since July 2007 but transfered all fish to a new and larger (435 liter) tank in September 2007 and haven't had any problems except for the cotton type fungal growth on a fish all the way back in October 2007 from my records.

We use two filters. An external Eheim Filter as well as an internal Power Filter brand Otto.

We also add Aqua-Pic's Tropical Conditioning Crystals and Water Ager ACN with every water change and gravel clean, which is done every 3 weeks approx.

I've turned the up the heater (after researching Ich/Ick) to 28 degrees Celsius which i believe is 82F or so, not sure if i should go higher now or tomorrow when i get more air stones tomorrow as i read this is needed when increasing the temp of the tank. We're currently have two (a stone and tube) but admittedly the tube is not functioning at it's peak.

Thanks again so much for taking an interest in my problem. I'm so worried about loosing more fish. I'd be totally devastated.

Kindest regards and thanks - Susan

Butterfly

Clown Loaches are very sensitive to water quality and to most Medications. Raising the water temperatures to 82F and over, doing daily water changes (warmer water holds less oxygen) will help the loaches immensely , will also take care of ICH.
I am unfamiliar with tropical conditioning crystals and water ager acn.
By the way ... Welcome to fishLore
Keep us posted we really are interested in your babies.
Carol

siouxsie

Gosh, I'm so grateful to everyone out there taking an interest and offering advice on my problem. Thank you Thank you a million times to all. I so appreciate the input and sincere advice and concern.

My partner did tests just this Thursday and they all seem to be reading 0 including Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Will retest again asap as well as do huge water change. We do nearly 8 large buckets every time - about 25-30%? of the tank but will increase this to 50%.

I also noted from my records that we have had a recent outbreak of little white hairlike 'S' shaped worms but my partners research on the net stated that they are harmless to fish - maybe this could be a contributing factor?? We have had these this little pest in the past but a thorough clean out of the tank fixed the problem and it didn't result in illness in any of fish.

Do you think an antibiotic will be harmful the Loaches? I still can't confirm if it's ich/ick or not. Oh what a stress! My poor babies!

siouxsie

I will do more test and a huge water change asap, keep the temp up and get more air stones as soon as the shops open (it's 1:19 am here in Australia)

It may be that the Australian market has different brands of aquarium products than that of the USA.

If you have any suggestions though as to what type is best I would certainly have a look for those also.

Thank you again to all once again for the welcomes and all the advice.

I will keep up the updates as well as the research.

Butterfly

Those little hair like worms are most likely a type of planaria and are harmless. but they are usually an indication of overfeeding . Since they are usually in most watery environments to some degree overfeeding will cause a growth explosion. A couple of good gravel vacuums will usually get them back down to where they are unseen. The fish love them as a source of protein.
Bottom resting fish like loaches, Corys, plecs etc need an extremely clean substrate to rest on.
If those products are dechlorinators and they are successful for you I don't see a need to change them I just wasn't familiar with what they were and what they were used for.
We all love our fish ad recognise that you do too and want to help any way we can. I had clown loaches for many years and really miss them.
How are they feeling today? The temp sounds good, As for antibiotics can you get Maracyn I or Maracyn II ? I would only use these as a last resort if the raised temps and water changes don't help.
Carol

dking271

When testing for nitrates, are you really shaking bottle #2? Bang it on a table, and shake it really well as the crystals tend to settle. My guess is your test results will them show some nitrates.

siouxsie

Hi all and thanks again for all your advice.

Loaches are not doing very well at all and lost another overnight. I don't have much faith that the rest will be ok or if they haven't already passed as i can't even see them in the tank.

Now the Silver dollars are exhibiting the same symptoms.
I can't believe how quickly this has all come on, literally overnight it seems.

Temp raised, more air stones as well as Ich medication added. I'm praying it will improve things as it's looking extremely dismal and am scared going to lose all the fish. I'm taking a risk with the meds i know, but at this point it looks as though there's nothing to lose because the Loaches are just getting worse and worse if they aren't all dead my now.

I'm so stressed out it's not funny. I just don't know what else to do and this is absolutely killing me. I can't even watch Dumbo movie and absolutely cried my heart out at the end of King Kong as it's all too traumatic let alone seeing my beloved pets suffering and dying.

In my haste forgot to take a sample of water to the aquarium and they didn't have many recommendations either. They did mildly scold me for not testing for water hardness which as an amatuer i wasn't aware could cause a lot of problems and haven't been testing. The test we do conduct were always great and the fish were thriving (new additions growing and the catfish even bred) so had no clues there were any water issues.

When testing we follow instructions to the letter including shaking the bottle of nitrate vigorously for 30 seconds as instructed.

I guess i can only play the waiting game now, pray and keep my fingers crossed.

Many thanks again to all once again. Seriously thinking whether we are up to keeping fish at all after this tragedy.

siouxsie

With the heaviest of hearts and great sadness it pains me to report that it doesn't look like any loaches have survived this absolutely sudden tragedy.

From the new additions growing at a rapid rate in the last couple of months to this, i just don't know what happened.

From the Sunday afternoon at the first sign of symptoms to today's devastating results, it just all happened way too quick. I guess the only positive is that they didn't suffer for too long.

I'm still not certain what went so horribly wrong with the tank.

Fingers crossed the other fish survive now.

Chief_waterchanger

Susan,

Are you on a well's water supply or do you get your water through a municipality (city, town, etc?)

If you get it from a city water supply I would call your agriculture department to get a report of the recent water quality and additives. In the USA the water companies can, and do, add chemicals to the municipality water supplies WITHOUT fore-warning people, because what they add is supposed to be safe for humans. Often times they may add something that isn't so safe for fish.

I had what sounds to be a similar problem that you are having with your clown loaches with my keyhole cichlids, but we are supplied water by a well..

siouxsie

Chief_waterchanger: Interesting suggestion about the water and now it's making me rally think as we only did a water change on Thursday and Sunday all fish are seriously ill.

We get all our water from a privatized (ex pubic) water company. I wonder if that had anything to do with it? Not sure if I could get a hold of any of their water quality reports not to mention that i would not trust anything they had to say. Like they would tell the public if they were adding any more chemicals then they already do! We only drink filtered water but don't know how we'd manage to change the water with that amount of it on a regular basis.

So depressed about the fish. I keep thinking we did something wrong but they were all doing so well. The two Dollars and the two Loaches we purchased in mid May were growing at a rapid rate and looked really healthy and then all of a sudden..this! The dollars in particular as well as one of the Loaches grew so much! One of the Loaches didn't seem to grow as much as the other so thinking maybe he was initially ill. Would it have taken two months for an illness to manifest in him then take hold and infect the rest?? Expect he wasn't the first to show signs of any illness.

RIP my beautiful fishes. I miss you all so much already.
Praying and doing everything possible to ensure the Dollars now recover.

Butterfly

I'm so sorry about your fish, send good thoughts your way. Don't beat yourself up over it you really tried hard and did all you could do.
carol

MousePotato

Hello, siouxsie. I am so sorry to hear about your loaches. I know I am quite late in replying to this message, but did your loaches look like the pictures in this thread?

Is this ick or is it normal?