dinokath

Hi all,

Been doing this for a while and wanted to gather opinions. Never really ever had pH problems. Used to have ammonia problems when I had drift wood inside the tank for the pleco. Took it out, problem solved. Here are the particulars:

pH - 6.0 (maybe lower. Kits reads 6.0 - 7.6 and I have NEVER had the water turn this color yellow before!)
Ammonia - .50 - 1.0 (I know...)
Water - Cloudy
Fish - all seem ok except the pleco. He seems to have a swim bladder issue. He's usually pretty frisky but I can reach in there and get him by the tail without his freaking out. This has me worried...

I dropped in AmmoLock per the directions. Have had this stuff for a couple years, it was on sale at the LFS so I figured why not. Dropped in 1/2 tsp baking soda per 10 gallons mixed with water.

Other readings are as follows:
nitrate - 20ppm
nitrite - 0ppm
GH - 75-100
KH - 80

I have them on one of those auto feeders that drops twice per day. Had them on that for at least 4 years without issue. I did recently change the food and it was the end of a can of dried flake, but the can wasn't all that old. Light is on a timer, on at 2pm off at 10pm. No real issues with algae, but I did use an algae product for the first time ever this last filter change, but that was about 3 weeks ago. Changed out the carbon and the sleeve, but I usually do that anyway. No live plants, don't have the extra $$ to spend on a proper lighting system to keep them alive so plastic 'real' plants will do for now.

Changed out about 30% or so of the water too and will keep an eye on it.

I guess my question is - Any suggestions or ideas on what would cause an all the sudden spike in ammonia and drop in pH in an established tank? Well established I may add.

Thanks in advance all,

Dean

cerianthus

Actually what you just described is very common scenario.
In well established tank, unless well monitored, pH will begin to drop when water's buffering ability diminishes. Every tank is different as its bioload is different.
When pH goes lower than what you have described (maybe even lowered than 6.0 as you mentioned and i believe that), your nitrifying bacteria seems to be disturbed/deactivated thus no activities to oxidize NH3 (ammonia) to NO2 (nitrite). When pH is low enough, NH3 will increase but DON'T be ALRMED since any NH3 at such low pH is harrmless since in nontoxic form NH4+ (ammonium ion).
Have seen people cause more death when one find such low pH by adding bicarbonate ion (Baking Soda) without checking NH3.
As pH is increased, more NH3 will be shifted to toxic NH3 form.
What I would recommend is simple small (20-25%) water change, as needed, to keep NH3 low (but not zero via water change) and as water changes (pH of new water should be lot higher than tank water; my tap is around 7.0) are done, pH will rise to a point (even just slightly above 6.0)where nitrifyfication will resume thus NH3 will go down to zero on its own. Then stop water changes other than routine maintenance. When thing are all stablized (no NH3, NO2) then could/should GRADUALLY raise pH to desired level by method you are used to.
Once pH is at desired level, could add buffer to stablize the pH. Even this buffer will exhaust as time goes by thus need to figure out the time frame (how long before ph plunges, etc) on your tank thru testing and logging. You should be able to derived the pretty accurate time frame when to raise pH and/or buffer provided nothing is changed. (additional fish, less routine/regular maintenances, amt of food, etc)
As far as why pH drops, Any protein matter will breakdown to its building block, Amino Acids, Some CO2 in water is in Carbonic Acid, urine as in Uric Acid, Some nitrate in nitric acid, etc, etc, etc. Unless counter acted by buffer, will eventually drop once buffering ability drops.
No assuming on NH3, NO2, NO3, or pH! Actual test will eliminate lot of guessing thus less chances of having problem with fish, IMHO
Hope this help out a bit.

dinokath

Thanks cerianthus! That all makes great sense. I check pH and all about once or twice every couple weeks or so and my tank, until now, has been a rock. Actually, it has been about a month since I last checked (at last filter change) because it has been so stable. I had been keeping a regular log since getting back into aquariums about 5 years ago, but after about 9 months or so of the exact same results, I quit doing it!

Any advice on the swim bladder issue with the pleco? One side is slightly swollen and he's like a ballon on the top of the water. Thanks!

cerianthus

I dont see the need for logging for tank that is 5 yrs old. Just figure out thru testing (maybe bit more logging,lol) how long before pH shift thus when to know to adjust pH and add buffer or simple insertion of calcaerous materials (cruxhed Coral). this can be done as routine maintenance once time frame is determined thus no more logging and less testing.
Keep in mind that when amt of livestocks changes, may disturbed the estimated time frame.
As far as med to be used in Q/T, If was my choice, I would probably go with Kanamyacin (although chloroamphenicol is better choice, but not avail anymore to my knowledge unless maybe thru Vet). If Q/T is not an optin, how about plastic container (larger the better) which can be hung on the rim of the tank. Lee's Products make such container (lfs used them to catch and bag fish). You have to figure out the volume and cut med (if capsule) to proportionate amt and follow the instruction. Just hang inside the tank so temp is stablized and can add gentle aeration (not too much bubbles since can go into the tank. Voila! now, you have Q/T/Hospital tank w/o spending mega buck.
You can also have 2nd container but punch tons of small holes for circulation (use hot tip of screwdriver) to be used as isolation tank.
Make sure to use tank water when performing water changes in DIY Q/T.