Diggly

Right my little fishy friends,

The LFS recommended these for my community tank and I trust my LFS, the also recommended alot of fish that I shouldnt have!

I cant find much about them online and they are just juveniles at the moment (I have 2) but if they cant stay in a community set up then I will have to get them a nice big tank of their own (wouldnt that be a shame )

I look forward to your reponses!

btate617

Hey Diggly

I don't know if I would recommend them for a community, but you could probably get away with them being mixed with a number of different fish. Stay away from small fish suck as neons.... you may be ok with some of the bigger tetras. What do you have them with now?

Their correct name as of now is Geophagus sp. 'red head tapajos' , try searching that.
You will come across many names such as
Geophagus....... sp. Tapajos, sp. Tapajos II, sp. Orange head, and others along these lines.
Some people will say they are all the same fish, but extensive work has been done and they are not. However if you find info you can go with most of what you fine as far as care and such as it will be similiar for all the fish.
You should try and get a ration of 1M/2-3F, as with all Geophagus. Good luck with them, an awesome fish and very rewarding if you put the time into them.

Brian

Diggly

I think I have 1m and 1f atm so I was going to get 1 more f. They truly are a special fish!!

I currently have 3 gouramis, 3 dwarf plecs, 1 syno, 6 kuhlis, 4 clown loaches and 3 black ruby barbs.

I think I am close to or might even be fully stocked! It is a 125g tank with alot of live plants some driftwood and sand

btate617

In a 125 those Geo's will be fine and won't need to be upgraded.

The only possible problems I see is the clown loaches might be a little too active for them, but they may be fine together.
Also you may notice some kuhli's "disappear" over time as the Geo's grow a bit.
Other than that good luck with them, some pics would be nice when you have the time.

Brian

Diggly

my large clown loach did a happy dance when I put the geophagus in and has been trying to school with them lol!!

I will get pics for you later and put them in the photo forum with the other fish.

The kuhlie loaches are asking for it anyway they try and chase off all the other fish during feeding time lol, they are giant kuhlis does that make any difference?

bolivianbaby

Those are some absolutely beautiful fish!

Diggly

Yeah they are! pics will be incoming so you can drool! haha

I will take it during feeding so you can see my syno, he is very shy but so huge lol.

Nutter

Your going to need more than two females to go with the male unless you are prepared to catch the male after mating. After he has mated with tboth females he will still want to mate & will chase them down & beat them sensless or to death when they reject him. You will need at least 4 females for the male unless, as I said, you are prepared to pull him out of the tank all the time.
As Brian said, stay away from anything small or an easy shape to be swallowed, like neons. My biggest issue with your stock would be that the clown loaches & Geos share the same space in the tank. You will most likely find that the Geos will attack the Clowns to try to get them out of thier territory, especially when they have started breeding. Personally I think that you should have either the Clown or the Geos, not both. There just isn't enough room down the bottom for them all. I would say that the four Clowns is almost too much for the bottom of your tank. It would be no contest for me, the Clowns would be gone & the Geos would have thier home. I've had Topajos for a couple of months now & they are fantastic fish. They may be listed as peaceful but that is just peaceful for an american cichlid. They will still beat each other up & can get fiercley territoral. I have been keeping Geos for quite some time now & like all other Geos they are a spectacular fish that can be very rewarding but I think you will have issues with the Clowns being in their territory & being too active for them.

btate617

I disagree with Nutter a bit. Putting 4 females will not solve the problem. Lets go with what you say about having 4 females to make it work. The reason is once he mates with the 2 females he is still going to want to try and breed again and harrass them, correct. So more females will counter this yes.

Lets look at how these fish breed. The male fertilizes the eggs and his job is done, he plays no further role. The female grabs the eggs in her mouth and the rest is up to her. He moves on looking for the next female that is ready to go. No matter if she has 2 females or 4 females there is a good chance all female could be holding at any given time.
To keep the math simple lets say each female will hold her eggs for 20 days before releasing them. Now lets say over a 5 day period the male breeds with all 4 females, which is very possible. So now she has 4 holding females and 15 days to go, she is in the same "problem" area as if she had 2 females holding just with 2 extra females thrown in. Holding females are very good at finding a quiet spot to hang out in while they do their thing, provided you give them these areas.

I think the point being missed here is the fact its a 125gal tank. She may have problems in a 40gal breeder but a 125 set up properly she should be fine, be it 2 females or 4. If she wants to keep a great number of the fry she is going to have to remove the female anyways, but adding 2 more females doesn't solve the problem it just moves the problem around a bit more. And before it is said yes that is the point to spread aggression, but 4 females doesn't stop it if you have 4 mature females who hold at the same time, you will be in the same place just with 4 fish instead of 2.

Brian

Nutter

Been doing it for years with Red Hump Heads & never had those problems. So have many, many other Geo breeders. As you say it does require a large tank that is decorated the right way but it works way better having 4 than just 2. Spreading the aggression is what it is all about, just as you pointed out Brian. Wether you agree or not, it is a very valid method of reducing the aggression between the male & holding females. With two females he can spend all his time beating them up, even in a large tank, but with four females that aggression is spread out so much that he will have litte impact on the females at all. It also gives them much more chance to hide from him when he is busy chasing another female around. It does not stop the aggression, as you say, it just spreads it around so that it dramatically reduces the damage that the male can inflict.

I would also like to point out that with Geos you do not move the females out of the tank, you move the male. Firstly so that you are only having to catch one fish. Next because the females are very likely to either spit out or even worse swallow thier eggs if you try to move them.

The normal way to have the Geos set up is to have a tank for the females & then another tank up against it's side for the male. Having him within visual range of the females will help ripen them for breeding. Once the females show interest by hanging around the end of the tank where they can see the male, he is transferred to thier tank, he does his bussiness & is then removed back to his tank. No matter how you decide to do it though, DO NOT remove the females. Only the male.

kacie

Diggly, I think you are getting great advice and hope that you will post pictures soon.

btate617

I do agree more females works , I was making the point of what if you have 4 females holding at the same time so you have no willing female left for the male. My point was if you have 2 females and both of them are holding in such a large tank she has lots of room to begin with, if a holding female retreats to a far corner in the first place she is out of sight and likely will be ok beings as this is a 6' tank. 2 or 4 in a 125 doesn't make the same difference as it would in a 40gal, the male will also turn his attention on other fish in the tank therefore giving the 2 females the same attention as having 4 females , not all his aggression 100% of the time will be breeding aggression.

The way you describe the last method you have no concern about the male beating on the females as he is gone as soon as the deed is done, so in that scenario ratios really don't matter. However she does not have a species only tank so for her to remove the male would leave her with very very few fry survival if any. If she removes her male , then when the female spits the fry have very little chance, take your pick on who will eat them, the barbs, the syno, gouramis, the other females who may not be holding at the time. Your idea is great for species only set ups. Species set ups are great, but lets face it 90% or so of hobbiest are not going to dedicate two tanks, with one tank only housing a male, to one species of fish. The average hobbiest just doesn't have the space for various species only set ups. Most buy the biggest tank they can fit and want a variety of fish, so this method does not work for most people. Nor for her as she has other fish who will be patiently waiting for a holding female to spit in the tank so they can have a snack.

But how do you say DO NOT remove the female. Mouthbrooding is not a new thing, nor specific to Geo's. Hundreds of people do it daily. I would not move the female immediatly either. I would let them breed the first time and see when the female spits, or at the very least have a general idea of how long your species holds for. Once you know, approximately, when a species will spit then you can time it a bit better. For me I aim to move all females about 3-5 days before they should spit. When you move them closer to the full holding period you have two choices. One, if she continues to hold when you move her, which happens often, then she just goes into her own tank and all is good. Two, she spits in the net and you place her and the fry in the net into their own tank. (Or option three, leave them in the community setup and hope for large survival numbers) She will now either A. reclaim her fry into her mouth, as once they first spit fry they still continue to accept the fry into their mouth for safety until they are just too big to do so, which most of the time this is what she will do. Or B. she will ignore them. If this happens no problem either because you have waited until almost full term to move the fry so now you just care for the fry the same way you would with out the mother just as if you had stripped the female. They are big enough to care for and really her job is done.
There is a very small chance a female is going to swallow fry that are close to size in when she would normally spit them, but frankly they are just to large for her to do that. She may spit them but we already covered that. A female holding eggs is very different than a female holding fry when it comes time to move her. She may swallow eggs just by you walking up to the tank, fry are another story. A little more about DO NOT remove the female. What do you do if you have a female who constantly swallows her eggs, which is quite common with mouth brooders, some never get it right although rare. Then even in a species only tank with several females you have to do something, moving the male isn't always the answer. Sometimes you have to move the female, which if timed correctly is just as effective.

I agree more females is better, with all my Geo's and Gymno's where it was possible I tried for ratios if 1M/3F. I just don't think it is as big as a concern for her beings ahe has a 125 up against say a 55gal tank. A male cichlid of any species is always looking to breed, however all of his aggression is not always breeding related. She has other fish to focus his attention on so if she has 2 or 4 females in her paticular set up I don;t think it will matter a great deal.

Also it was exactly one month ago today that you were asking for help finding info on this exact species, at which time you said yourself you could not even spell the name of them, so maybe advise such as DO NOT remove the females is a bit premature.

Brian