hazeymom

Hi everyone,

I was just at my LFS, just checking to see if they carry German Rams.
They don't, but they have Bolivian Rams. I asked the guy about the Germans and he said he thought they were the same thing and that he has both the gold and blue bolivians. I thought that German Rams were blue and Bolivians were gold and they were 2 different things?
I was looking for Germans as my husband likes their blue coloring, but now I'm curious what it is that they haveat the LFS. One German mixed in with a bunch of bolivians or two different kinds of bolivians?
Thanks!

Amanda

German Blues are harder to keep alive than Bolivians. Germans are also more colorful.
Bolivians are hardier in general.
But yes, they can be mixed.

ABCDemily

Amanda's got you covered. My GBR is a plain golden one, nice blue flecks on him in the right light. You'll find that the electric blue GBR's (The word Blue in the GBR's name doesn't stand for much lol) are far more expensive than the normal ones, and harder to keep and look after as they have been through a lot more intensive farming to get that rich blue colour.

If you want a hardy, first off dwarf Cichlid, I'd go for the Bolivian, hey are hardier and don't go through as much intensive farming and treatments.

Good luck!

hazeymom

Thanks.

So the one that I thought was a German might be a bolivian with blue specks like ABCDemily's? And even if its not it would be okay to mix it with bolivian's.

I appreciate the help.

I am actually not new to this, just out of practice. Had several different cichlid tanks a long time ago....

mathas

Perhaps, but Emily said hers was a GBR, not a bolivian. To clear up any confusion, there are two main species that we call "rams," Microgeophagus altispinosa and Microgeophagus ramirezi.

Microgeophagus altispinosa (or the bolivian ram) really only has one variety, though color and markings vary slightly from fish to fish. Pictures can be seen here: Sexing Bolivian Rams

Microgeophagus ramirezi, on the other hand, has three common color morphs, each with their own common name. These are all scientifically the same fish, just different color strains present after years/decades of selective breeding:

• German Blue Ram, as seen here: Sexing German Blue Rams
• German Gold Ram (or Gold Ram), as seen here: gold ram sexing
• Metallic Blue Ram (or Electric Blue Ram, or just Blue Ram), as seen here: New additions to my 100 gallon community

edit: it's also worth noting that most fish in stores are stressed and not displaying their optimal colors. If your store doesn't know what they sell, it might be time to look for a new store

That depends on the tank size. The two species can coexist, but each has a tendency to be territorial and needs a certain amount of space. What size tank are you thinking about?

hazeymom

Thanks Mathas.

After looking at the pictures I still think they have one German and lots of Bolivians. I know its terrible to be going to an lfs who doesn't know what they are selling, but I don't have a lot of choices. Even though they get mixed up on what the fish are called, it is the healthiest place I can get fish.

The tank is 55 gallons. Technically its my son's though I am the one who cleans it and does all the research What he wants more than anything are angels. However he would love to have a couple of rams as well.
It's a relatively new tank (but fully cycled since we seeded it with gravel and filter media from another tank) ammonia and nitrites have been at 0 for several weeks and nitrate is about 10. So far it has about a dozen zebra danios, a couple of glofish, 3 albino cories and 3 peppered cories. We will be adding angelfish (I just haven't decided if its better to get 6 and see if or how they pair off or to just get 2 and hope for the best)and are considering adding a couple of rams as well.

mathas

Two or three rams should be just fine in a 55g, particularly if you have driftwood, plants, or other decor where the males (if more than one) can establish territories. One male and two females would be ideal, in my opinion, but they're often difficult to sex in the store.

hazeymom

After reading all the input you gave me, I decided to get Bolivians.
So, I studied all the info about sexing them in the hopes of getting 1 male and 2 females as suggested. However, I just couldn't manage to figure it out and tell the difference, and neither could the lfs guy.

So I got 3 and crossed my fingers and brought them home. Now that they are in my tank and happy, I can see them much better (though still not well enough to sex them)

I do believe that I did get two GBR's and one Bolivian. I took some pics so you can see what you think.
(sorry the water is a little cloudy...stirred up a bunch of stuff moving some rocks)

hazeymom

Bolivian I think?

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hazeymom

German #1?

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hazeymom

German #2?

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mathas

You do have one bolivian and two GBRs. My first guess is that you have three males, but they all look young and underfed (particularly the bolivian), so it's hard to say. Give them a month or so with a good diet, and it should be easier to tell.

hazeymom

Thanks mathas.
Poor things...they did not hesitate to eat as I read rams sometimes do when first put in a new tank, so I guess that goes along with them being underfed.

Hmmm...I wonder if I should wait a month and see or take back the GBR's and try and get two female bolivians to go with the one that is probably a male.

(Isn't having 3 male rams in the tank asking for trouble?)

Thanks Again.

TedsTank

3 males are usually not too much troubl...better than 2...one will be dominant and the most colorful. Put in a female and you will have WAR!!!