DARB

I have a 55 gal with 1 betta, 5 tetras, 5 platies and 1 clown loch. I decided to go with a african cichlid tank. So I went and bouht 6 asorted cichlids little ones put them in the tank. With in three days all died exept two of them. I have cycled my tank for four weeks tested at ammonia .25 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 pH 6.8 temp 78-80. what should i do I want to put more fish in my tank but I want to fix my problem. ps. I am cycling a 20 gal for my noncichlids

DARB

I have a 55 gal with 1 betta, 5 tetras, 5 platies and 1 clown loch. I decided to go with a african cichlid tank. So I went and bouht 6 asorted cichlids little ones put them in the tank. With in three days all died exept two of them. I have cycled my tank for four weeks tested at ammonia .25 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 ph 6.8 temp 78-80. what should i do I want to put more fish in my tank but I want to fix my problem. ps. I am cycling a 20 gal for my noncichlids

Fish Addict

what type of cichlid were they? Also your tank isn't cycled if it has ammonia, and no nitrate... Also the betta could have harrassed them...

Butterfly

bdn I merged your two posts hope you don't mind. this way all responses will be in one place.
carol

MinxMermaid

I'm not sure what happened to your fish, but we keep our african chiclids in a completely separate tank from the community tank where we have tetras and loaches and rainbows and stuff. they have a differnt diet then the community tank and there's something else my hubby adds to the chiclids, like something from their lake (sorry i'm not exactly sure what it is).

i thought you could not keep africans in a community, so that may have something to do with what happened.

i'm kinda surprised your africans died and not your community, cuz our africans are SUPER aggressive and i know if they were in the community tank they would kick Butt on those little tropical fish in there!

soldieroffortune1974

Any level of ammonia and no nitrate reading,your aquarium isn't ready for fish.I am surprised the tetras aren't distressed as well,but generally it's not a problem for cichlids.
I am a newbie to this forum,but I am curious why you didn't mention how long they may have been in a quarantine before going into your main aquarium,that isn't ready to accept fish.

My suggestion is to lower the water temp to 70 to slow the fish' metabolism,slow their waste production,add extra carbon to he lp with the excess ammonia until your aquarium's bioload can filter itself naturally.That will be when the aquarium is finished cycling. Add 1 tablespoon seasalt per gallon, 10 galX 1 tablespoon=10 tablespoons seasalt. The seasalt will act as an antibiotic tonic to kill any potential ICH,fungus,etc that may have been introduced since you didn't use a quarantine. Add extra stresszyme (fish slime coating that protects the fish from disease).

If that doesn't help,then you have bigger problems,and need to do further water tests and pay close attention to all fish in the aquaria for signs of disease and toxicity.

Good luck

Shawnie

I respectfully dissagree soldieroffortune....70 is way to low for some of those fish....and the salt might do more harm than good....at this point, water changes is your best friend and daily ones of at least 50% until the cycle is complete...if you can find some prime water conditioner, that will neutralize the ammonia for 24 hours until your next water change...goodluck either way! hope the fishes do well

soldieroffortune1974

There's a lot of disagreement on those points,but the facts are that they work.EVERY body of water on the planet contains salt,and it's a natural antibiotic; and lowering the temp to 70 for any species is not harmful,(temporarily) because of the natural metabolic cycle in the body,reduced blood flow,reduced energy consumption,slower disease response,allowing the tonic (seasalt) to rid it of possible toxins,diseases,and some parasites.

I respect your stance,but any biologist or biology teacher would agree with me. The chemicals that block ammonia,are highly toxic to the environment,because they not only bind the ammonia but they also bind oxygen,and others so the ammonia can't react to them,to produce toxins.

Basic science 101,I would be happy to debate the pros and cons of seasalt as an antibiotic and tonic. The truth is,if there isn't a certain amount of salt in the water,the fish are being deprived of various trace elements and nutrients they need.

Butterfly

I respectfully disagree also. The Clown Loach alone will not do well with salt of any kind. They are also very sensitive to water quality. Water changes and monitoring ammonia and Nitrites will go along way toward helping your fish survive. The 78-80F is a good temperature for all fish in that tank. Lowering the temp drastically leaves them open for ICH. Especially the Clown.
Carol

Dino

While all bodies of water contain mineral salts, most freshwater bodies do not contain a measurable amount of sodium chloride (sea salt) naturally.

I would be very leery of lowering a clown loach to 70F as this is way below what their body is adapted to.

I am also leery of adding sea salt as a broad spectrum cure all.

I was awarded my bachelor's degree in Biology from the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga in 1991.

Shawnie

I do agree seasalt is a great antibiotic...I do piercings and thats all I use for healing...on humans...not on my fish ....the loach and betta will not tolerate salt of any kind as carol mentioned...some fish will be ok, those he has in the tank will only do more harm...

soldieroffortune1974

True.true and true,I have no disagreement with any of what you have said. However,I do stand by my analysis. The point of lowering the temp is to reduce the metabolic rate of the body,thereby by passsing their adaptability,and using it in their favor,to slow body function thereby slowing the potential for disease to attack before it can be treated. I never intended for anyone to assume that was to remain the temp throughout the Clown loach's lifespan,or any of the other fish.A temporary decrease in temperature over a period of time,I didn't say drop ice cubes in and plummet the temp.

The seasalt isn't intended as a broadspectrum cure-all,but it is quite effective on a large number of disease,parasite,and toxicity concerns. Freshwater benefits are increased due to the lack of sodium chloride,that's part of it's effectiveness.If it was present in larger quantities,then introducing it,wouldn't have noticeable effects.

I studied Marine Biology,and went to SeaCamp in San Diego,CA in 1993. I studied at the Marine Biology Dept of Texas A and M in Galveston,TX and received my associates Biology degree in 2000,and my Bachelor's degree in marine biology in 2003. Not important,but I also acquired my Doctorate in Criminal Science. I am also a certified Level 4 rescue diver,and hope to obtain my masters to teach. (diving mixed gases (nitrox)

Dino

I would think reduce metabolic rate would also mean reduce immune response thus making the fish MORE likely to be at rick of infection.

Butterfly

I didn't assume you meant for the temp to stay at 70F. but I do know from personal experience that Clown Loaches are ICH magnets and any chilling is begging for trouble.

That is a very impressive education, but I would think it would pertain more to Marine fish. Marine fish and freshwater aquarium fish are usually treated a bit differently.
Back to the original problem- The tank not being completely cycled is going to cause problems for those fish. Water changes will lower the ammonia and make them more comfortable without adding anything or changing the temps they are used to.
Carol

soldieroffortune1974

I can save the debate for another thread,sorry about that.

You are correct that the ammonia will cause problems for them all. It doesn't explain why the cichlids are dying and the tetras are fine.The cichlids are generally heartier than tetras. Obviousely the cichlids are the newcomers,and are causing some problems of their own. If possible I would remove them from the main aquarium into quarantine. Solve the uncycled tank problem without adding the mysterious factor that the cichlids present.Then implement the regime stated before.(for another thread)

Shawnie

My explination is probably the tetra's have been in the tank as the ammonia has begun to rise to the .25 and the new cichlids were not exposed to any until put in the tank...who knows...but that would be my opinion

Butterfly

How did the Cichlids act/look before they died? How long did they live after buying them.
Shawnie thats a very good explanation
Carol

MousePotato

What a polite disageement!

I'm also curious about bdn's acclimation procedure for the cichlids. 6.8 is a pretty low pH for them. Could that little shock, combined with the ammonia and the general stress of relocation have done it?

Escobar

Everybody has raised very good points above but the one point that was lacking, which thankfully got a slight mention at the end by MousePotato is regarding the pH. As rightly mentioned, cichlids are quite hard, but one key thing to note is they do require a high pH, between 7.8 and 8.3 or there abouts. How were they aclimatized? But even then the ph in the tank is too low. Cichlids also require very hard water so it might be worthwhile checking the hardness of the water (kH and GH). Cichlids should also not be mixed in with community fish as they are aggressivelt territorial, esp. Malawi's. Hope this was of help and good luck.

DARB

I found out my tap water had 1.0 ammonia in it. After all the water changes it din't help the cause. I fixed the problem and Know all my fish are doing good. Thanks you all for the input