freshwaterguy

I am currently cycling my 180L I would appreciate recommendations on compatible mbuna or malawi cichlids as I have never kept either, only American cichlids in firemouth and currently GBRs in my 240L.

I do like yellow labs and believe these are supposed to be quite peaceful

My 180L has 200W heater 78F, PH 7.8, TetraTec EX 1200 (with Carbon) Sand 2" (Marine type) and Rocks

I know that Malawi and Mbuna should not be mixed - my questions are :-

1) Recommendations on compatible Malawi & Mbuna
2) Advice on stocking - read overstocking is good (but don't want to overload filter either)
3) ratio of males to females

Any other suggestions welcome - Thanks

Allie

For cichlid newbies:How to set up cichlid tanks

Slug

Mbuna are from Malawi. Malawi refers to the lake in which all of the Haps, Peacocks, and Mbuna come from.

That tank comes out to just under 50gals i think. 50gals you could, and would be looking at a very general number of about 15ish fish. Mbuna that is. This all depending on species, sex ratio, etc. But generally a ball park number of Mbuna for a 50-55gal would be about 15 fish total. Could possibly go up to 20 if you keep up on maintenance and take care in stocking.

With that being said, there are HUNDREDS of Mbuna, and hundreds of morphs and type localities of Mbuna out there. Its tough to just suggest some. You usually run across the more general types at the LFS though.

First let me ask, what is your intentions with this tank? Breeding? A species tank? A colorful eye catcher?

1. See first sentence above. If you mean other fish from Malawi compatible with Mbuna, Peacocks and Haps both work...in special cases. Problem with mixing other types from Lake Malawi is a Mbuna's diet is mainly veggie, while the other fish are opportunistic feeders and will eat other smaller fish, snails, crustaceans, etc whenever they can and are hungry....they graze algae too but their diet consists of a lot more. Mbuna can't handle as much protien as the other fish and are prone to Malawi Bloat. Thats why its tough to mix the two. Thats not to say a peacock or hap can't live great off a veggie diet in the aquarium, but you never know. Also the Haps get fairly large and need large aquariums. One other point is that the Mbuna are usually the most aggressive fish in the lake. The haps and peacocks in most cases keep to themselves and don't usually bother anyone. The spastic behavior of Mbuna can un-nerve the peacocks and haps who might feel threatened.

2. Overstocking is good for Mbuna. It keeps the aggression spread out so its not focused on a single fish. You should look around the net, and pick out some species you like and research those more.

3. 1 male to 2-3 females in most cases with Mbuna. If you have more the one male of the same species only one will usually color up to their full potential. The other will be sub dominant and not want to attract attention from the alpha male.

freshwaterguy

Thanks Allie for the useful URL I have done quite a lot of reading earlier and has given me a good insight into compatibility. I have read what temperature, PH & water hardness is required.

Allie you have yellow labs and blue haps do these make good tank-mates?

Matt - I was thinking of a maximum 10-15 cichlid before your stocking suggestion. Most I have looked at grow to an adult 6" which is a lot bigger than my GBRs it will be quite a sight to have some 'larger' fish in my new tank.

I guess 12 to maximum of 15 - 6" fish would not be 'too much' for my 180L?

I do WC once a week on my tanks & enjoy doing it, maintenance is not a problem.

I have seen quite a few cichlids over my recent visits to the best LFS near me, have been impressed by yellow labs and various blue colored fish - but are so many to select from - if only could have one of each!

I have been put off by convicts, oscars and jacks are not suitable for my 180L - I love the look of frontosa but would again need a bigger tank.

I have read that lots of cichlids of same gene group/color should not be mixed as this will increase aggression - is this true?

regarding Matt's question "what is your intentions with this tank? Breeding? A species tank? A colorful eye catcher? I would answer an eye catcher without excessive aggression. If my proposed fish find they wish to breed this is not an issue.

I am impressed by Haps but would like to know would they be suitable for my 180L if I was to have a male & 1 or 2 females? perhaps with 3 or 4 yellow labs & some other fish (perhaps another 5 or 6) that would give me about 12 fish

Thanks for your pointers so far any further advice will be appreciated.

I will do some more research for sure as I do not want to purchase incompatible fish, I am looking at getting a my new fish next weekend.

MissMTS

All of the advice you have gotten so far has been great

You should be fine with 15 mbuna in a 180L. I would make sure that you have LOTS of rocks in the tank so that they have caves to hide in. This helps them have a place to retreat if someone is chasing or bullying them. It also mimics their natural habitat.

You should try your hardest not to mix fish that have similar colors and that are not from the same genus. They tend to see eachother as a potential threat and may lash out at eachother in order to assert their dominance (especially males).

If you want a tank that is an eyecatcher....I would avoid most of the dimorphic cichlids since the females tend to be very bland. Make sure that they are monomorphic. However, there are some exceptions such as Kenyi, where the males and females are both brightly colored...just different from one another!

If I were you, I would stay away from Haps. I agree that they are totally gorgeous, but they are not suited for such a small tank.

If you are worried about aggression, I would check out www.cichlidforum.com. If you click on "profiles" you can search cichlids according to region, temperment, gender differences, etc. I have found it really helpful. They also have a Cookie Cutter section under "Library". The cookie cutters have suggested stocking schemes that have been reccomended by the moderators. I find these to be a great starting point when deciding on socking for a new tank.

Please let me know if you have any other questions......I am happy to help!

Slug

Apart from inbreeding, all of your general Zebra mbuna can make a great colorful display. The Cobalts (Metriaclima callainos) and Red Zebras (Metriaclima estherae). Pseudotropheus socolofi is a nice blue fish as well. I've had red zebras with labs before, done fairly well.

If you want color and breeding you could still go species tank. Pseudotropheus saulosi is a nice dwarf type Mbuna that have contrasting male and female colors (Males are blue females are yellow). They are pretty "peaceful" for a Mbuna from what i've experienced. They would make a really nice species tank.

freshwaterguy

Wow Thanks a lot, I am off to LFS to get some more rock - just tested my GH and it is 7 with PH 7.8.

Allie

My 4 labs and 2 blue haps get along great. I definitely recommend to have 2-3 females per male, even if you aren't breeding them. My blue hap male just beat the tar out of my only female, wanting to breed. If you want a happy tank keep females so they can do the deed. You know what men can be like like when they can't get any
In your tank you can have 15 fish, I would do 3 species 5 of each. Make sure they all have the same level of aggression. More aggressive the species the more females I recommend.
The babies get eaten when they are spat out, with few or no survivors. Especially if you have blue haps in the tank...they love eating little fry.
Species i have kept with the blue which they got along with were Acei and the cobalt zebra. Types of afra go well and they only get 3.5" at the most. You could have 17 fish if you add an afra species. Lots of caves and extra feedings & filtration all keep the tank happy and clean here.
Afra species:
http://cichlid-forum.com/profiles/results.php?genus=54

freshwaterguy

Allie & co Thanks again for your posts, please find below picture of my 180L minus fish :-)

Tetra Tec EX1200, 200W, Stone background.

Attached Images

rio180-060908.jpg (297.9 KB, 7 views)

freshwaterguy

I have today been doing quite a bit of reading on Mbuna compatibility and my shopping list for first African setup is as below - thoughts & any suggestions please

Labidochromis Caeruleus ~ yellow lab\electric yellow - 1m 3f
Pseudotropheus Sp. Acei ~ yellow tail Acei - 1m 3f
Metriaclima Estherae ~ Red Zebra - 1m 3f

total 12 fish

how does this look regarding compatibility and m/f ratio for the above and stocking. My 180L is 101cm x 41 x 50H not a 120cm long tank.

unfortunately my LFS does not currently have any Pseudotropheous Saulosi although they said these could be ordered.

Allie

That is a good combo. You can get one more species, 4 fish..
An afra species would be a great contrast.

freshwaterguy

Allie Cynotilapia Afra look like a good alternative or addition to my list above, I will see what I can get at my LFS.

Will I be OK to :-
1) stock 16 Cichlids in my 180L - 101 x 41 x 50cm H
2) initially what is the maximum amount of Cichlids that are safe to add?

Thanks

Allie

I would add the first 8 fish and two species first, wait a week or so to add the others. Check your tank's readings before adding the second batch of fish...if they are normal then add the rest.
Malawi cichlids are messy fish, big poopers, b/c you should feed them at least 3-4 times a day. A reason for double or more filtration on their tanks. I feed them more during breeding mode...it seem to keep the aggression down. A hungry fish is a cranky fish.

freshwaterguy

Thanks I will follow that when getting the first, getting 2 species of 8 first - hopefully 1m 3f ratio subject to availability. I read to feed twice a day but I can manage three times if recommended.

Allie when you say double or more filtration do you mean two have two canister filters? or to have a filter like my tetratec EX1200 that is rated for 200L to 500L which is obviously overkill for my 180L - Cheers

P.S my GH is rated 10 which I believe is moderately hard water.

Allie

Well you've got the filtration. BTW I find my Malawi set up gets a cloudy look to it more than others, if your s is the same just do a 20% water change and in a few days it's clear. Everyone once in awhile it happens for a few days...some be some kind of bloom of something in the tank.

My boyfriend keeps track of the tank's readings. Ours must be normal he hasn't said any different...I need to be studying that part of fish keeping too. if you say 10 is moderately hard than it could be.

steveangela1

One thing I have found is w/ the ratio look on aquabid you might find the species you are looking for in the ratio you want. Then you can order the number of fish at a time and the exact species you want.

And I agree w/ the feeding sced, I tried to lower the freq of the feedings, but It doesn't work, I just lowered the amt I feed them 3 times a day is good for mbuna, they do get cranky when they are hungry (of coarse I don't think I have mbuna I think I have pigs with fins they follow me across the room just watching my every move waiting on me to come to the tank w/ food and this is a lot of mbuna tanks! and a lot of little eyes geesh now that I think about it I hope they don't start a revolution lol)

Allies advice is great!

Double filitration is a must w/ overstocked cichlid tanks, and frequent water changes. I do mine 2 times a week, one vaccum and one 20% change midway between vaccums it keeps my nitrates at about 10 and my ammonia and nitrites at -0-.

freshwaterguy

Ally I will keep an eye open for any blooms, I will be doing WC every week probably 10% to avoid any big fluctuations in PH. I already have my tub of Tropic Marin Triple Buffer - although I have since read about DIY solutions.

Thanks again, I posted a picture of my setup to date above comments welcome!

I will post more when I have fish.

freshwaterguy

please find below before & after picture of my 180L minus fish :-)

I had this set up last week and have now after seeing so many good Cichlid tanks been out and added to it. I think it is an improvement :-)

There are quite a few areas for fish to swim between (hidden in picture) but believe my soon to be Mbuna tank will have enough places to hide out to avoid any single fish having to much aggression.

PH7.8, GH160 mg/l (ppm) & KH80 mg/l (ppm)

Comments, opinions appreciated.

Attached Images

	rio180-060908.jpg (76.2 KB, 2 views)
	rio180-090908.jpg (80.5 KB, 4 views)