outlaw

Well when I thought the female red fin was attacking the male. Tonight I was proven wrong. Looks can be deceiving. lol When I was trying to clean some of the poo out, they were hiding under the tree. The kids were like "Nemo! (yellow lab) Stop!". I asked what he was doing and they said he was "wiggling". When I looked under the tree, he was sitting there biting the red fin in the side and the red fin was just sitting there. I'm assuming because my hand and the net were in there, he would rather be bitten and safe then in the open. I caught the yellow lab and have him sitting in the fish net with nowhere to go.

what should I do? Do we need females for the lab?

Any advice or help is appreciated. Again, its a 46G bow front with 1 adult male red fin, 2 adult female red fins, and 1 adult male yellow lab.

MousePotato

My understanding is that mbuna should usually be kept in groups of one male to 2-3 females. There are exceptions, of course, but I'm pretty sure yellow labs fall under this guideline.

I don't know anything about the "red fins," but a mixed quartet sounds like trouble to me!

outlaw

They actually were ok until recently after we changed out the gravel. the lab kinda took over the bottom portion of the tank. We bought the entire setup: tank, stand, hob, and fish off of craigslist in January and haven't had this type of issue til about a month ago when the gravel was changed. It was a white and black marble stone and now it is just black. We want to get the 2-3 more females for the lab if its going to lower the agression but right now we don't have the money. My main concern is the size of the females at our LFS. With all the adults in our tank, most of the fish I see for sale are significantly smaller like 2-3" smaller. I don't want the aggression to be shifted towards them because of their size.

Thanks for the quick response.

MousePotato

I understand completely. I've been through a year of drama myself, having taken in two fish I knew nothing about only to find they are completely incompatible.

I did a little reading about your red fins. They get pretty big, so they need a larger tank than a 46 gallon. At least a 75 is recommended. They get up to 8" and grow quickly. Plus they are carnivores.

I don't know how your current fish would respond to smaller newcomers. I've been wondering myself since I need to buy 11 demasoni to go with the adult I already have and that's pricey even for 1-inch babies. Maybe someone with more experience will come along and help us both out.

outlaw

Yeah, the male red fin is already an adult. He is about 7-8" long. I do understand he is too big for the tank, when we bought it I didn't know that, but at the same time it was kinda like a rescue from what they were in (water wise). With his body being damaged I don't want to get rid of him yet. I did read the cichlid-forums page on the fish we have (yellow lab and red fins). It is just weird it all started happening recently. We have had 3 batches of fry from the Red Fins already in the past since January. When I looked up the Lab again, it did say they are mildly aggressive towards other species. Which it does make sense now, but why weren't they like that before? lol I do want to get a bigger tank, but that wont happen til we move to a bigger place. We already have 3 tanks and really no room for 2 of them.

Thanks again.

Here's where I looked for info on my fish.
Yellow Lab: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profile...es.php?id=1669
Red Fin: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profile...es.php?id=1009

Allie

I honestly think you need a bigger tank for your fishies. Yellow labs do get quite aggressive when not in the right ratio of females....I saw my single male ps. acei (being sold once we know the african were affect by the worms) chomp a bite of my blue hap male last night. I yelled HEY NOW!! like they could hear me.
I need a bigger tank I have 9 fish in a 33g The 3 extra males are being pains right now...but I have to keep em there for another 3 weeks of being monitored and treated.

outlaw

What kind of stock could I do with cichlids in a 46? I can't get a bigger tank right now. I could probably give/trade the lab to the LFS that took our fry until the red fin heals. With so many different types of cichlids, its hard to choose/find the right kind. I am probably going to stick with Malawi since I think that is what our LFS has and they are really cool looking. The kids aren't going to like it when they see "nemo" missing though. lol

Thanks.

Allie

Yeah it's the trouble with Africans..you need to find the right mix...sometimes ones that are suppose to be fine together aren't b/c of the individual fish's nature. Not to be a nit picker but the least sized tank recommended for red fins are 75g. Maybe they need to go unfortunately.
http://cichlidforum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_40g.php

outlaw

I do understand the red fins are too big for the tank but they came with it and we didn't have any problems with them fighting until recently. I'm not going to get rid of the red fins until the male heals up. We still have about 60 or so fry in a 20g and 2.5g. If the red fin heals and I am able to give them to the lfs, I could move all the fry to the 46 until they get bigger, then look at getting new fish when they are gone..

Thanks.


Looking at the link everything is aggressive execpt these:
Lake Malawi Aquarium
• Placidochromis electra - 4
• Copadichromis azureus - 4
Victoria & Malawi Combo
• Labidochromis caeruleus - 5

And I'm assuming the number following the type of fish is how many you should have in a group? This one is about 7.5" as an adult and recommended in this 40Gal starter. I know it is a .5" difference but, what is wrong with the red fin that its not?

Allie

Red fins can get bigger than 9" the dominant ones. Maybe it's the fact that Red Fins like to school and need the space to do so. So 4 or 5 rf schooling at an adult size would need the space for sure.

outlaw

That I can understand. But either way, this guy needs to heal some more before he goes anywhere.

Is my assumption correct that the number after each species is how many should be put together (4 = 1 male and 3 female?)

Thanks for all the help.

Allie

Yup.
I can relate...I need to sell my last single males but I have to wait until the c.worms treatment is finished...in 3 weeks. In the mean while they are continuing to mess with my healed up blue hap male and the labs.
What a species of fish to fall in love with eh

outlaw

Yeah, lol. They are cool and I really didn't have any say when we bought the tank. I didn't really want fish that big but was like the price is right and when we saw the colors, it was cool. I just wish we could get a bigger tank. When we got the 46 it seemed big, but now it seems to small especially when trying to do the decor. When people say to have 2-3 hiding spots for them. I can barely do 1 for each. With the big guy, anywhere he can fit so can the others so it's hard to do hiding places for him.

Allie

I know....I can only put so much rocks in the 33g for the mbuna...plus I need an open part for my blue haps to hang out. The 33 is too small for the fish I have, but I have to make do until we things straightened out here fish wise.

outlaw

I think I am going to have to give/trad the Yellow Lab to the LFS while the Red Fin heals. The Labs bottom jaw was pale/white and I hope it was just from him liking to move the gravel or fighting with the Red Fin and not a disease. I rearranged the tank and put them all back in. The next morning I was watching them and they were at it again. As soon as the male Red Fin went under the tree, the Lab was like this is mine and bit him in the side.
kids I tell ya. At least these we can trade off to a better home. lol

outlaw

Here's an update.

Red Fin is almost fully healed. Fins are pretty much grown back just needs to get their color back (still kind of a cloudy see through).

here's the best picture I was able to get. Not as blurry.


All of the fish, including the yellow lab which looks really evil through the net. lol


A blurry one.



And the cool thing is the water is so clear, it looks like the fish are just floating and there isn't even any water in it.

Slug

I keep hearing red fin, red fin and i've been trying to rack my brain to which species it is...finally came to me, Copadichromis borleyi. Hehe, i just don't hear it called red fin to much.

Glad to know they are healing.

outlaw

Sorry, I don't think they are as common as a lot of them due to their size. I know there are some that get bigger, but don't really see people (on here at least) with these and just called them by their nick-name "Red Fin". Thanks.