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Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Newbie
 
Ready to give up

I apologize in advance for the length of the post. We need help!

This is my first post but my husband has posted a few times and put up a video about the batch of convict fry we found about 3 weeks ago.

As a newbie to the wonderful world of cichlids, I'm at my wits end. No matter what we do the tank just gets worse!

A little history about the tank may help. The tank has been running for about 7 years. Started as a peaceful community tank with neons, gouramis, corys, etc...until we bought two leoporanis (spelling?) which the lfs told us were peaceful. NOT

Slowly our community tank disappeared and more advice from the lfs told us to put cichlids in with the leoporanis which did work out. That was about 6 years ago. We still have the jack dempsey which was one of the original cichlids we bought.

Forward to the past maybe 12 months...the tank was neglected for several months. Life took over and the tank suffered. The JD was the only fish in a 55 g tank for quite a while.

About 3 months ago we started getting it back on track, cleaned it up, bought new filters...1 Aquaclear 50g filter on each side, a few new small cichlids which the JD is fine with.

We have made mistakes with our fish choices: 2 red top zebras, 2 convicts with about 20 babies that are starting to look like real fish, 2 firemouths, and a small pleco and don't forget the 8 inch JD.

Since we started the clean-up process, nitrates have been a huge problem. We have been able to get them down to 40 but can't get below that. Ammonia is 0 and the ph is fine. We have been doing 30% water changes 1 - 2 times a week, vac the gravel every week, changed about half of the gravel which the lfs suggested, added the second filter, started cleaning the sponges in the filter with the tank water about every 4 weeks.

What I think are Diatoms just take over within 2 or 3 days, brown dusty stuff on the glass, different types of algae...threads on plastic plants and plain ol green algae on the glass, tiny particles floating through the water, and the last disaster was an ick outbreak last week. Even the little babies had it! We have had the water at 84 degrees for a week now with no sign of any ick on the fish. Funny thing was that the only fish that did not have ick was the red topped zebra. Makes ya stop and go...hmmmm!

What are we doing wrong? Please help!
Irisheyzs is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
HI, WELCOME TO FISHLORE!

I am going to take time to read your post, but just so you know someone is out there, I wanted to say hi, and hope we will be able to help.......I'll be back........
susitna-flower is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
OK, gotcha! First, we need a reading for nitrites...you gave it for ammonia and nitrates but to know if the tank is still cycled we need the nitrite reading.

ICK - Turn up your heater.....slowly to 83.....just raise the temp about a degree every hour. If your heater can't handle that, you may need to add another heater for awhile. HOLD the temp at 83 for at least two weeks. This will kill all the ick. While you are doing this you will need to be doing 25-50 % water changes every other day MINIMUM...I put it that way, because of your second problem....HIGH nitrates.

40 is twice the safe limit on nitrates. You know this and I can see you are concerned, but you have to up the number of water changes and the amount to get them down, and keep them down in this tank. After the ick is gone you should continue with 50% changes twice a week or how ever many it takes to get the nitrate under 20.

Algae is a normal state of affairs with high nitrates. The two things you can do is to cut the nitrates in the tank and limit light exposure. If you have lighting, only have it on 8-10 hours a day. If your tank is near a window, move it, or pull the shades during the day. The diatoms are due to the severe filtration and gravel changes.

The rule of thumb for HOB filtration is 10 X the gallons of tank turn over....so if you have a 55 gallon tank your filter has to process 550 gallons per hour. The Aquaclear processes 200 gph. Two of them will only do 400 gph. Your new filters are not processing the water fast enough.

A JD can be in a 55 gallon tank MINIMUM, but with the load you currently have you need a much larger tank. Without the pleco your adult fish need a tank bigger than 55 gallons. If your pleco is a common, which is usually the only kind that would be sold for an aggressive tank, it has to be counted for up to 18 ". The babies another 100 inches.

At this point you need to do several things besides the water changes. You need to get a bigger tank, with adequate filtration. To start you could get a Aquaclear 110 use it in your current tank WITH the filters you have running, then look for a tank that is 100 gallons, and use the 110 in that once you get it set up.....instant cycle! You would also want another filter in a bigger tank, like a Eheim 2028 or bigger. Then the filters you are currently using could stay with the 55, with a less heavily stocked tank.

The nature of the fish you have causes more tank mess than the normal community tank, they are messy eaters. This adds to the problems of nitrate buildup with less than optimal filtration.

I wouldn't "change" filter media or gravel, the bacteria needed for the cycle are in the filter and gravel. If you do anything with that gravel it should be to vacuum it every week. With each water change you can vacuum 1/2 of the tank. This gives the fish places to go away from where you are working. As long as the tank has been set up, I'm sure it could use special attention to this chore.....Good Luck, and keep us posted.

Last edited by susitna-flower; April 27th, 2008 at 03:41 PM.
susitna-flower is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Newbie
 
Thanks susitna-flower for your help.

For the ick...the tank has been stable at 84 degrees for one week now. One more week to go and then I will slowly lower it.

We will do more water changes. We just did a 30% water change today and vacuumed the gravel. Actually, I vacuum the gravel at least once a week sometimes twice. Within an hour if you move a plant or rock, all kinds of dirt start floating again. Is that normal? I'm wondering about the aquaclear filter...the tube in the water seems to short for the depth of the tank. The old Whisper filter that we had went almost all the way to the bottom. Could that cause a problem?

Unfortunately a bigger tank is not in the cards right now but we could possible get a better filter. Also the babies will be going to a friend of mine soon.

I don't have a nitrite tester at home but from what the lfs told us, it was fine. Nitrates are what we have been battling for about 3 months now.

Thanks for your help...I appreciate it!
Irisheyzs is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Keeper
 
with adding the new filters you shouldnt be washing the bio sponge out. With a tank that is 7+ years old im sure you already know most of the things were saying. One thing that makes me wonder is how fast you added the rest of the fish. if it was just the JD for a while then you added alot at once the bacteria in the gravel and filters needs to catch up causing another cycle whick could bump your nitrates even more if they werent 0 to begin with. My personal vote is to give back some..... only some of the fish.

The brown algae is diatoms and it is common with any new gravel or filter if you start from scratch. Dont worry they WILL go away on thier own.

another test that you may want to pick up is a phosphate test. the higher your PO4 the more algae will grow and high PO4 and notrate would make an algae nightmare. If possable try to do a few small Water changes in one day totaling a little more than 50% of the tank. If you are really bored you chould try to change even more than that, just make sure the temp is close between the tanks water and new water. It seams like alot of work and it is but in the end you will like the way your tank looks and your fish will thank you.

hope this helps
MArk
Wolfgang8810 is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Newbie
 
Thanks Mark...what I like about this site is that nobody gives judgmental answers...just helpful answers. We have made alot of mistakes along the way but hopefully we learn and get this tank running better.

The sponges get really gross so I have been squeezing them out in tank water about every 4 weeks.

When we started adding new fish we had the JD, then added 2 small convicts and 2 small firemouths. Two weeks later we added the red tops. Then the babies came. I thought the convicts were to small but so much for what I think! Last week we added the pleco to help with the algae. So this all has been over the last 3 months.

We will do alot of water changes this week!

Thanks again!
Irisheyzs is offline  
Old April 27th, 2008  
Fish Master
 
Hi irisheyzs..this site is amazing for help...lots of ppl that arent judgemental...seems you are gettin the help needed and I hope it gets better soon! I have two convicts with fry and I had to move every fish out of their tank as they slowly killed them off...goodluck
Shawnie is offline  
Old April 28th, 2008  
Master Of Fish Poo!
 
Welcome to Fishlore.

Looks like you've gotten good advice to help out and hope to hear that things are running smoother for you very soon.
COBettaCouple is online now  
Old April 28th, 2008  
Fish Newbie
 
Thanks everyone for your help...this is a great place to come for advice!
Irisheyzs is offline  
Old April 28th, 2008  
Fish Master
 
hows the fishies doing today?? any better?
Shawnie is offline  
Old April 28th, 2008  
Fish Mentor
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyzs View Post
Thanks susitna-flower for your help.

For the ick...the tank has been stable at 84 degrees for one week now. One more week to go and then I will slowly lower it.

We will do more water changes. We just did a 30% water change today and vacuumed the gravel. If you can't do 50% all at once, do 25% then another 25%.
Actually, I vacuum the gravel at least once a week sometimes twice. I run the end of the gravel vac slowly through the gravel, pushing gravel along, this seems to get more. If you are running stronger filtration though it is a fine time to stir some of it up and have the filter pick it up, then rinse the filter material in some discarded tank water.
Within an hour if you move a plant or rock, all kinds of dirt start floating again. Is that normal? Yes it is quite normal. In fact you do need to move those rocks or other decorations to be sure the bacteria under them is not in an "anaerobic" state....without oxygen, as this causes nitrogen pockets to build up.
I'm wondering about the aquaclear filter...the tube in the water seems to short for the depth of the tank. The old Whisper filter that we had went almost all the way to the bottom. Could that cause a problem? I am sure in addition to the filters you currently have it will not be a problem. If you get just one 110, you would have to use the filters already in use as well. The intention is to up the filtration significantly.

Unfortunately a bigger tank is not in the cards right now but we could possible get a better filter. Also the babies will be going to a friend of mine soon. What about the pleco. I agree you probably need a fish to help eat algae, but as I said if it is a common this poses problems with the size tank you have.

I don't have a nitrite tester at home but from what the lfs told us, it was fine. Nitrates are what we have been battling for about 3 months now. Most folks here recommend the API Master test kit for freshwater (liquid) which has all three major tests...Ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. It is cost effective as it does hundreds of tests. You would have to buy an individual test for phosphates, but try to keep it an API if you can find it.

Thanks for your help...I appreciate it!
GOOD LUCK!
susitna-flower is offline  
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