redlessi

Congrats!!!!!!

nitram79

thanks Redlessi,

will update again when they get a bit bigger and i can get some nice pics

nitram79

Hey all,

The mum and babies are doing well, but I have noticed some new eggs on the glass of the tank. She is in there with the babies alone and no other fish are in there. Should I be worried about her with these new eggs? will she protect the new eggs from the babies, by eating them?

aquarist48

Congrats on the new babies Nitram! Beautiful fish.
Ken

nitram79

thanks Ken!!

nitram79

Hey all,

babies are doing well, ive seperated the mum. I thought she was picking them off, but it turns out that 8 of the babies made there way into the filter, so i took them out and have a total of 26 little ones. There is one big one which looks like a male, the rest seem to range in size, some of them being really small still. They definately grow at different rates. I have them in an enclosure so i'll try to get some pics tomoro.

TedsTank

Sounds great!!!....Quite an experience (for you). I have learned that the best is to just leave them alone. Let the female raise them. If panicked for any reason they will pick off some of the fry.

Your tank for the Cockatoos may be a bit small because the female has territory that the male is not allowed in til the fry get more independant.

Anyway congrats!!!! Good job on the setup!!! they had babies. Your new fry will also be more comfortable (adapted) to your specific water parameters. Cockatoo fry are fast growers for apisto's.

nitram79

Thanks Ted,

yeah it definately has been an experience. if it wasnt for the babies getting into the filter, i would have left her and them together. but i noticed that thier numbers has declined over a few days and also the day i removed her, i was watching them and there was a baby in the corner on the gravel. the mum came over and she was hovering a couple of inches away from the baby and looking down at it at about a 45 degree angle. as i was watching her she started looking really funny like she was about to pounce on the little one and i think the baby got the same impression and it just took off really fast. i thought hey that didnt seem right. then she went over near the filter and i saw her snap at something that was on the move cause she had to chase it a bit. thats when i thought i best take her out coz i wasnt sure what was going on.
as for tank size, i dont have anymore males left, they all died. I'm planning on breeding one of the male babies which is 50% flash and 50% triple red with a female 100% flash, if she is still alive when i get home in a few hours. she got picked on again by the dominant female so i put her in the tank with the babies. they are in an enclosure so they'll be safe. if she doesnt make it i'll let them back out to swim around the 2 footer. i had to collect them all so i could clean the tank because i have a stocking over the filter so its not collecting anything and the tank is getting a bit dirty due to overfeeding. so will see how we go. will take some pics before i let em go though.

TedsTank

Fun!!!..the hardest part I ever had was to get the babies out of the community tank without ruining the community tank!!! Breeder I have seen use min. of 15 gallon long tanks, a sponge filter and a flower pot or coconut hut for breeding. Then take the male out (much easier to catch) after spawning and leave them alone with the brooding mom...4 weeks or more til the fry are very actively feeding.....that is the commercial setups....Takes quite a few tanks...breeding....fry and then growout. And these guys can spawn almost every 3 weeks if you dont seperate them!!!!!

nitram79

Yeah my girl laid eggs twice but no male to fertilize the eggs so so ate them. The babies finished off the eggs when i moved mum out.
i have em in this breeder enclosure. do you think its big enough to leave them in there till they get a bit bigger so they cant get sucked into the filter??
here are some pics.

nitram79

here are a few better pics of the biggest of the baby. some of the others are a quarter of the size of this one

bolivianbaby

Awwww, he's so cute!

nitram79

yeah he is, but im thinking it could be a girl, but I dont know yet. only time will tell

here's another pic

TedsTank

Start doing some internet research on skewed sex ratios with apistos. Water temps and to some degrees pH will affect the outcome of the spawning, in that you could get mostly males or mostly females. One breeder I know spawns one group at a low temp and one group at a higher temp, so as to end up with more pairs.

One of the theorys is that these little guys evolved in the small pools and creeks. During the dry seasons the pools get very small and warm..and wont support too many males, hence there are predominantly female fry....and the reverse during the wet season...larger areas of water available and cooler fresh water from the rains.

Apistos are an interesting group of fish!!!

nitram79

I have actually done some reding on this subject, but i couldnt find much specifically on cacatuoides, but there is a bit on other apistos. What i read was warmer water will produce more males than females. and a low PH of arounf 5.0 to 6 will produce will produce more males than females. neutral to higher will produce more females. which is opposite to what you said but this was on other apistos though, not specifically cacatuoides. I was hoping with the parameters of my water with what i read, that it could go either way, depending on what works more PH or temperature, coz my water was at 28c and the PH is 7 - 7.5, but going off what u say, i'll get more females. the 2 biggest ones look like girls, but the rest are so small that its hard to tell, they have yellow bellies which makes me think male but i dont know. im trying to tell from thier fins also but no real luck there.

TedsTank

looks like you might have 2 spawns because of the size difference. You will notice the males soon as they grow....will begin to show color on their tails fairly early.

The cacs grow fast!!! many of the other apisto's take forever!!!!

Keep going forward....you are learning alot!!!!!

nitram79

I can't see how i could have 2 spawns even though it sounds like a good explination for the size difference. There are about 3 sizes, if you were to group them. I cant see any fin colouration yet, sometimes in the right light, it looks like one of the big ones has a slight yellow about it, which makes it look like its mum. speaking of her, she has taken out the last of the other female cacs in the 3 footer, even though the other female was bigger. Deffinately got some strong genes in her. I think if there are any boys from her, i'll pair one them with her cause she's seems to be a tough fish. the LFS said they would be getting more soon, so i may try and find a nice looking boy to mate with her then i could pair up the 2 diff fry batches without as much inbreeding issues?

TedsTank

Yes, you can pair up the first fry back to the parents with no issues. Be sure the young males have a good percentage of coloring on their fins. If not full color. and a predominance of clear fins, you will need to start looking for better stock. Usually noy all the fry end up being triple reds, some will be doubles and some will have hardly any color. If you are breeding the orange flash, I think the same will happen just not all fins good colored.
IMO, the Triple Reds are the most beautiful with the red and black on ALL fins!!! I avoid any all orange fish at all (not just apistos)..I can achieve that with a feeder goldfish...lolol (no offense to Goldfish keepers...I have several beautys and Koi)

nitram79

lol yeah i'll deff be looking for the best males, with the best fins on them (colour and fin size) but if i can find an excellent male from the lfs when they get there shipment in, i'll prob just use him and and sell my babies, its pretty much going to come down to what the lfs get, if they get any quality then i'll choose a male from them, otherwise, i'll pick one of my own. id rather not inbreed them obviously

TedsTank

I think a lot of inbreeding is going on anyway....but if you can don't is you good breeding stock for colors. LFS might not have the best...wait and see.

nitram79

personally i like the orange flash better, the triple and doubles remind me of guppies lol im just praying i have some males in there. but i think its just going to be girls. i lowered the tank water to 26. some of the little ones are really small so maye their sex hasnt been decided yet

nitram79

here's a pic with my newest addition to the tank. I saw them at the lfs and they're not expensive like some of the others so i grabbed about 8 of them.
You can see the size difference between the biggest baby cacatuoides and the 2 smaller ones above on the leaf

bolivianbaby

they're so cute! Congratulations and thanks for sharing the pics!

nitram79

No worries, it is amazing to see the size diff between the babies. at the current rate, im wondering if the biggest babies will be able to eat the smallest babies before they get big enough. its also funny to watch them flare up and flick their tales at eachother. they're soo small, but they're already up to their tricks at such a young age. great to watch, but feels like its taking so long for them to grow.

nitram79

Hey all,

i have noticed that the Caudal fins on a few of the small babies have been chewed up pretty badly. i havent seen any major aggression between the fish, just the usual flaring and tail flicking. i'm wondering if the 2 bigger ones are attacking the small ones coz the fin damage is quite bad and i cant see the small ones doing that much damage to eachother.
Also with the small ones that dont seem to be growing.. is it possible that they won't grow? maybe they are under developed??

nitram79

Hey all,

the babies are still so small. there are 3 big ones, the biggest is female, the next is male, his colours are starting to show up nicely, and the 3rd is still hard to tell
heres a pic of a little on i took out of the enclosure, but coz of the other big fish i think it wanted back in lol.
that was about a week ago. its doing quite well, not even hiding anymore

1 question, what kind of price am i looking at to sell to the shops. they cost 25-30 dollars here, one shop said they'd pay 5-6 in cash but more if i swap for products. 5-6 seems pretty cheap seeing they sell them for 5 times that price, or was he trying to rip me off?

TedsTank

I've seen them from 16 - 20 dollars a pair and up. LFS' are looking for profit...yes they have a big mark up...trade may do you the best, while deciding whether to be a big breeder and sell online or not. It gets expensive raising lots of babies!!,,, fry tanks.....grow out tanks....and tanks to keep them in til you can move them on.....I gave up breeding them...have them seperated...30 fish every 3 or four weeks?? or more....I wasn't ready for that!!! I had cacs, borellis and inka 50's all spawning, too much!

nitram79

Yeah i think im going to go with trade coz i have put a bit of effort into it. here they about 50 a pair but ive seen them 90 a pair, but that was for german imports. i can't imagine trying breed them full on, would definately need 4 tanks to do it properly. i got rid of alot of fish out of the 3 footer, so i have more room to put some in there now, but im worried about the nasty mum. she's so territorial its not funny, she basically rules the 3 footer now. im gona put this other male in there with her and see how it goes. he's gotten a bit bigger than when i first got him so hopefully he can handle himself now.
here is a pic of my biggest baby male. his colours are coming up quite nicely

nitram79

Howdy all,

Ive moved the kids to the big tank and the mum and her new man to the 2 footer.

here's a couple of photos of the kids you can see the difference between the big boy and his brothers and sisters
I did the change over 2 days ago, and all is well. I noticed a few hours ago that the shell the mum laid the eggs in the first time for the above babies, has had its entrance made smaller with a pile of gravel filling the entrance. i can even see the crater she left next to the pile of gravel. she was outside the shell at that point but then i looked about 30 mins ago and noticed the entrance had become even smaller. then i noticed the male swimming by the shell having a little bit of interest in it, and then i saw a shadow move in the shell through the tiny hole. it looks as though she has barricaded herself in there. i'm guess/hoping that this is to protect a new lot of eggs from the male?? anyone have any ideas??

TedsTank

Yep!! She is at it again. When this batch hatches, and she brings the fry out, watch for big time aggression towards the other fish. I guess by now you are getting used to it!!! Good job on all this!!!
More tanks?? Borelli's?? Inka 50's??....lolol