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May 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Angelfish breeding (w/ pics)
Hey all,
This morning i was about to start a thread asking whether my 2 angels were mates or 'just friends', as i had never been able to see their breeding tubes, but they get along impressively good. Well, i went home for lunch this afternoon, and noticed them picking and cleaning a flat piece of rock as if looking for food. I though they were hungry, as always! and fed them just a tiny bit of flakes.
As soon as they were done with their flakes, they went back to their rock. So I gave it a closer look and turns out the rock is full of eggs! they look like round sand particles... somewhat clear/beige in color and assembled quite carefully over the rock.
I dont really know if i have a true breeding pair, because when i bought them i didnt really look for a pair. But here is the description of how they behave:
1) The Silver/gold Marble pearlscale angel is the most aggressive (they were both in a community and i had to take them out mainly because of this guy). However, NEVER has attacked the black marble, not even during feeding. Despite being aggressive, it is pretty calm and keeps a low profile.
2) The black marble is not really aggressive, but is much more curious and acknowledges my presence much more. Constantly flashing and swiming in interesting patterns.
In my opinion, the silver/gold marble is the female, as her breeding tube was huge. Plus her body shape is quite rounded. The black marble has a much more angular body and his breeding tube was pretty small, but not exactly pointed... Also, judging by his fins, he certainly looks like a male (maybe this is due to more veiled type fins).
They kinda trust me, and dont interrupt their procedure when they see me, except that whenever they see me, they beg for food... but when i tried showing the episode to my wife they kinda went shy....
Here's some pictures taken w/ my cel phone camera, so sorry for the quality, but this really caught me by surprise. I also took some with my wife's phone, which i hope will be better... so i will post them later.
After all this... i have 3 questions (I will let the parents take care of the eggs/fry):
1. Should I add some aquarium salt or methylene blue (and what dose would be safe) to avoid some bacteria or infections?
2. The tank currently has no lighting, because the angels were in a 50 Gal community and had to be moved due to the silver marble being a bully. Should I use a light or will they be ok with the normal day/night cycle?
3. From what I have described, would you say this is a real couple, or could they be 2 females trying to engendrate?
Last edited by f1ea; May 25th, 2009 at 05:52 PM.
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May 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| wow, you are so lucky. i'm no expert on breeding or sexing angels but i heard that males sport a lump or a horn on their forehead when they get bigger. my computer is slow at the moment and i can't zoom in but it looks and sounds like the male is the black one.
what's their temperature at the moment? i heard that 78-80F (26-27C) does great. i don't think they would be 2 females cause fish usually only spawn at the right time when the oposite sex is ready, that's what i've been told. eg. you wouldn't see to female bettas try and spawn. it just don't work.
i think fish (especially fry) grow better and feel better with a real aquarium light, but i don't have a light at the moment and my fish are fine. a light for me is to expensive. and i'm not sure if you should add salt. i wouldn't knowing that pterophyllum scalare (freshwater angelfish) is freshwater.
i think the best thing to feed small fry is infusoria or fry bites.
well good luck with the breeding! | |
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May 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Its been about 7 hrs since the eggs were laid and they are all still clear/brown... i havent spotted a single white egg yet and they havent eaten any 
Havent really counted the eggs, but the 'nest' is something like a 1" x 2.5" area. I guess the Black marble is male and the Silver marble is Female. Right now they are taking turns fanning the eggs with their pectorals and closely inspecting their eggs (as if to check for defective ones?).
They are in a 15 gal rectangular tank (i wish i had a tall one), but i could buy a taller as required if the fry survive.
Dont have a heater nor a thermometer, but ambien temperature is currently 81F (8:00 pm) with 84F Hi / 76F Lo for the day, with 29,91 in barometric pressure.
By the way, it IS possible to add non-iodized salt to freshwater fish. It increases their slime coating and boosts their inmune system (1 tsp / 5 gal). Likewise, for some reason it is possible for 2 females (or a single female) to lay eggs, although they would be infertile and turn white within a few hrs. The parents would eat infertile eggs.
Last edited by f1ea; May 25th, 2009 at 09:19 PM.
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May 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| don't have a heater, hmm, i would consider getting one and a thermometer. in the winter, how cold does it get? the fry will need a very stable temperature or it can interfere with their growth. i really doubt they are both female, though there is a very, very, very small chance, but probably not.
what other fish are in the tank? if there are any other fish i would get them out immediately, for the eggs safety and their own, angels are very aggressive when breeding.
i know it will be hard to get a larger tank but you might need one for the fry. at least a twice the size, 30 gallon. even if it's just a crummy tank, it's the size that counts. you will need it for the fry's growth. don't worry about gravel for them, all they will need in the tank is a heater. i wouldn't worry about a filter until they get about an inch long. but do frequent water changes every week, about 20%.
do not disturb the eggs. good luck. | |
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May 25th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Thanks!
The 2 angels have been alone in the 15 gal for about a week. And I will probably get a 20-30 gal tank with a simple sponge filter for the fry. Or maybe place the parents in the bigger one... it all depends on how much fry makes it.
i have to get a thermometer for the BIG outdoor tank im building, so i will probably have one by next week; However, temperature varies very little over here: ranges from 72F - 88F in summer and 69F - 84F in winter.
The parents took like a 30 min break from fanning... but now they are back at their posts  | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| 84F is really the absolute minimum temp angels should be and about 85F is the minimum for fry. i would put the fry in the 20 - 30 gallon even if there are only a few. they need a lot of room to grow.
good luck
how big is the out door tank? | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| ok i will let the bigger tank for the fry. However, i doubt that many will survive... i think overnight the eggs began to die off. This morning there's many clear/tan (60%) but also a lot of opaque/tan (40%). I guess i would be happy with even 2-8 surviving.
The outdoor tank is about 165 gal. 7 feet long, 2 feet tall. | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| They all turned white
Ok so the eggs were not fertilized. After 24 hrs they are all white, except maybe 2 - 3... but im sure they'll go wihte as well. So either its 2 females, or the male still doesnt know how to fertilize the eggs.
They are both looking over the eggs, fanning and cleaning around them.
Also, I notice the probable male (black marble) cleaning a new piece of rock... and one of the walls. So perhaps they are getting ready for another go.
Since they will probably eat the eggs, i will feed them sparingly today... | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Master
| I cant get your pics to enlarge to help with the sex of them...from the smaller pics that i can tell, the marble is your male and the black is your fem...from finnage is what im looking at, not their face...and its my guess without being able to enlarge the pics.....but I just want to add a few suggestions....
if you can get a 20 gal tall or 30 gal tank, after your angels spawn again, and they are free swimming, (about 7 days) put mom and dad in the new tank and leave your fry in the 15 gal..use a sponge as you said to help them from being sucked up in the filter...you are going to need a heater to keep the temps stable so they dont go up and down...around 78-80 is great....85 is way too high and will deprive them of oxygen ...keep the tank a bare bottom other than a few big leafed plants and a piece of slate(remove after the fry are free swimming) for them to spawn on..you want a bare bottom to keep the water and tank prestine..a small bubble wand help keep plenty of oxygen in the tank but you dont want it going too fast..it will blow the fry around...you will need to do daily partial water changes for the free swimmers...you want to use some prime or stress coat+ (for the chlorine and chloromydes if you have city water) and some methylene blue (to keep algae down)...I hope the next batch goes well..it sometimes takes a few spawns and your couple are still young..I wouldnt ever add salt with angels...most of the fish we get now a days, arent use to salt to begin with
Last edited by Shawnie; May 26th, 2009 at 01:28 PM.
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Going at it again!
Just got home from work, and i notice they've eaten the old batch of infertile eggs, and placed a whole new batch. The 2nd batch is slightly larger than the 1st one, and in the same rock. They are still taking turns at fanning them... must be quite a workout!!
Should i do a 20% water change? and separate them if the eggs turn all white again? i wouldn't want them to fan themselves to death!
I'm not sure about the sexes, because the Silver marbe is the one that behaves more like a male (much more territorial and aggressive). Although between them there is no aggression, and they like to swim and hang out together even when they were in a larger tank (50 Gal). The Black marble is pretty easy going, but has a smaller bredding tube so that has me thrown off 
So, since they went at it again, is it still possible that they are opposite sex, or could they go at it right away despite learning they are both females?? | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| i really don't think they are the same sex. the silver marble might be aggressive because she is being protective, that's just a guess becuase the black marble seems very masculine looking.
hope they get it this time!
what are you panning to put in the out door tank? | |
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May 26th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| The black looks masculine on 'livebearer' and probably betta terms... but i'm not sure if that applies to Angelfish as well.
The outdoor tank will have Angelfish, Blood Parrots, 1 Black Ghost Knife, 1 Albino Rainbow Shark, and some livebearers: Under construction - Stocking suggestions
Unless i find more exotic fish around here. Also, hopefully lots of plants. Its taking longer than planned because I am also designing/building a deck, Jacuzzy and landscaping the patio, so i'm doing it all at the same time... | |
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May 27th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| i would go for some larger fish like oscars or plecos or arowanas, but that sounds nice, hopefully it doesn't get to cold. | |
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May 27th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf  i would go for some larger fish like oscars or plecos or arowanas, but that sounds nice, hopefully it doesn't get to cold. | Arowanas grow WAY too large. And looks too much like a snake, my wife would be terrified... 
Although Oscars are very cool fish, i really dont want to invest in a large tank for a sole single fish (2 at the most), because in the end Oscars will claim the tank, eat every fish and destroy the aquascaping 
I might place 1 pleco... but i think Plecos produce more waste than the algae they clean! and are pretty dull to look at. I love how angels swim between tall plants and they have captivating personalities; they also grow large enough taking tino acct. their fins... | |
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May 27th, 2009
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| | Fish Bum
| More pics
Here are additional pictures from the 1st day of spawning. They are not perfect, but maybe will shed some better light on whether its FF or MF.
By the way... batch 2 of eggs turned white within 24hr... and got eaten as well. | |
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May 28th, 2009
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| | Fish Keeper
| aww, better lick nest time, i heard you should feed them infusoria for the first 2-4 weeks of their life to raise 90% of the fry, if you use artificial foods like flakes or baby bites you will raise 10%. they will not eat the artificial food but the strongest fry will find their own food that grows in the tank, just to let you know. | |
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October 3rd, 2009
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| | Fish Lore Newbie
| I have angels that I breed. They prefer a bit of a warmer temperature when spawning but don't require it. A lone female will lay eggs without a male at all, usually they spawn for five months out of the year, but mine did it five times between December and February.
Females will choose a new mate if her mate has died.
As for sexing them, the 'horn' on the male is very true it's reminicent of the bump we get on our nose if it's been broken. The other way is their belly. A female with have an honest to goodness belly that is rounded while a males belly is pretty much straight from his breast to his anal fin.
Hope this is helpful. | |
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October 3rd, 2009
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| | Moderator
| Hello PaganGodess. This is an old thread. Please check the dates of the original post before responding. Thanks!
Ken | |
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