Isabella

One day after I've added Seachem's Flourish (liquid fertilizer for plants) to my tank, the baby Cherry Barb has its tail missing, and I presume it's dying. Coincidence? I haven't been adding Flourish to my tank for a few weeks prior to ordering my new plants. That's the time frame when the baby Cherry Barb was born. I found it when re-planting my tank and put it in a breeder net. I started adding Flourish again, starting the day before yesterday. One day after I've added it to my tank, like I said, the baby's tail is missing and it's dying. Prior to adding Flourish the baby was perfectly fine.

Now, I've been keeping fish for more than 3 years now, and have had only ONE sick fish during this time, which was a Neon Tetra with Dropsy. It got Dropsy in a perfectly clean tank (0 Nitrate, 0 Nitrite, and 0 Ammonia) and no fish got infected from the sick one. Anyway, my point is, it's very unlikely that the baby Cherry Barb got sick from my "poor" tank maintenance habits, as I know my habits are very good. After all, I've successfully raised baby Angelfish, so I know perfectly well on how to care for fish so that they grow up and stay healthy.

Anyway, I don't know what the chances of it are, but it looks like Flourish is to blame for the sickness of my baby Cherry Barb. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the feeling I'm getting. Folks on Plant Geek say Flourish is safe for fry: http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10225 but I don't think so.

And I thought I was going to have this baby grow up for me. I was getting so happy and excited for it I already got used to it and love it It's so beautiful and I hate to see it die I was stupid. I should have moved it right away to my 10 gallon Q tank, even though the pH difference is large between the two tanks.

Should I move it now even though it's dying?

susitna-flower

Isabella, I am so sorry to hear about your baby! I am sure no one thinks you are stupid. Everyone has to just do the best they can, and I think you were using good judgement not to change it under the ph description you gave.

Isabella

Yeah, but I shouldn't have added Flourish to my water. Now I know. I don't blame the people on Plant Geek for saying Flourish is safe for fry (because they said they raised fry with Flourish in their water), but I believe in my heart Flourish is what has hurt my baby. Well, what can I do. I'll keep feeding it for as long as it's alive , as I can't medicate this tank. It's fully planted and the medication would kill all the plants.

Barbrella

Oh no, I"m really sorry to hear this. I know how thrilled you were to have this little one.

Is it possible it's tail got bitten off by other fish?

I would put into a small container (like a Critter Keeper etc) with clean Primed water and float it in the tank. Can't hurt to try!

Tazmiche

I agree with Barbrella, try anything you can to give it a chance. I think your reaction is a natural one from someone that cares and not stupid.

It may well be the Flourish and if that is the case you weren't to know. I lost my first Betta within a few hours of adding a 'safe' medication!! I'm sure you will do the right thing by it but i say try to save it, you never know all may be ok!

Isabella

Barbrella, I really doubt any fish would have bitten off its tail. No fish can get through the breeding net. There's no way.

Also, it makes no difference to me whether I move the baby to the 10 gallon Q tank or float it in a container with clean Primed water. This is because my 75 gallon tank (where the baby's net is) has a pH of 7.8 and my tap and Q tank pH is 6.8-6.9, so wherever I move the baby, it will experience an extreme drop in pH. If I am to do anything at all, it's to move the baby to the Q tank by an extremely slow accilmatization method. The Q tank has 0 ppm Nitrate, while the 75 gallon tank has 5 - 10 ppm Nitrate.

I really don't know what to do . What are the chances of a small baby fish surviving a disease? I don't think they're great, are they? Since it's rather not possible that another fish has bitten off its tail, is it fin-rot? Or has the tail simply dissolved due to Flourish? If it's a disease, can the tail grow back in a fish this small?

I am so upset right now because this baby is so small. Too small to suffer like this. It was perfectly fine up until I added Flourish to the tank. If I ever find any survivor again, I'll move it to the Q tank right away without any second thoughts.

Isabella

Tazmiche, I will try to save it. I'll acclimatize it with a drip method to my Q tank today. It's dying anyway, so a pH change is probably not an option to consider right now. At least the Q tank has 0 Nitrate and no Flourish.

I hope my experience will be a lesson to others who may want to add Flourish to a tank with fry. NOT a good idea at all. At least they may be able to save their babies before anything happens.

I mean, maybe I am wrong. Maybe it's not Flourish that's killing my fish because, as the Plant Geeks said, they've raised fry in water with Flourish. But I don't think it's a coincidence that my baby got sick one day after adding Flourish. This proves that adding ANY commerical products to your water REALLY does hurt fish (except for the dechlorinator which is also a chemical but at least it's less dangerous than chlorine and/or chloramine in our tap water).

P.S. By saying "I was stupid" I meant that I was stupid to have added Flourish to my tank.

Butterfly

I think the flourish is ok. Is their anything that could have nibbled it's tail? I would definately quarantine it. Is it still eating ok?
so Sorry hear this sad news. Keep us posted please.
Carol

COBettaCouple

we're so sorry to hear that.. poor little one. I'd agree that Flourish is the culprit and I'm rethinking recommending Plant Geek to anyone as an information source.

I'd try to get the little baby healed up in a small hospital tank with tap water treated with both Prime and NovAqua+. I would add VitaChem and Fish Protector daily. I'd even add a drop of Meth. Blue to the water. I think that would give her the best chance of making it.

Isabella

Thank you Carol and Dave. I'll see what I can do. But I can't add any meds to the Q tank either because it still has 4 Harlequin Rasboras in it. Unless I move them to the 75 gallon tank today. Gosh, I don't know, I'll see what I can do. But then again, even if I moved them, adding more chemicals to the water with the baby ... maybe that would hurt it even more. Maybe I should simply increase the temp. and keep the water perfectly clean. Maybe add a bit of aquarium salt? Besides, I think the meds would hurt my snails in the Q tank.

I am at a total loss. Or maybe I should just run to the store and ask about the meds you're recommending Dave.

Carol, it appears to be munching at food even though its tail is missing. And I really can't imagine what could have bitten off its tail. There is nothing in the net except the baby, and no fish can penetrate the net enough to take a bite of the baby's tail. I really can't see how this could have happened. I mean, how could that be possible?

Dave, all in all, I think Plant Geek is a great info source. The people over there helped me a lot with my planted tank. I probably wouldn't have set it up without their help. But Plant Geek is mainly a PLANT site, NOT a site to look for info about fish. I know they didn't want to give me misleading advice. I'm sure they wanted to help. They said they HAVE raised fish in water with Flourish. So I assumed it wouldn't hurt my fish either. Maybe it wasn't Flourish after all, what do I know? I really can't know that. But I do know that the baby was perfectly fine until I added Flourish to my water. That's all I know. I thought I should ask them because they use Flourish on a regular basis in their planted tanks.

COBettaCouple

well the prime, novaqua+, vitachem and fish protector would only be beneficial to the rasboras. the main reason i'd move the fry is to get her into water totally clear of meds, then just add those conditioners and vitamins to give her body a chance to heal.

Isabella

OK, Dave, I'll move her today to the Q tank and will try to run to the store today and ask if they have these conditioners (though I don't know if I'll have the time today). If not today, definitely tomorrow morning. She better hold on until then.

COBettaCouple

i hope you can find them, i always had to order Vitachem & Fish Protector online, but that was in our little town. I'd think they'd be at stores in bigger cities.

If you can't find Vitachem, maybe another liquid multi-vitamin could be
substituted.

http://novalek.com/kordon/fish_protector/index.htm - i LOVE this stuff! Natalie found this for us and i know it helped with our fish, including a real sick platy and wild betta fry, to make the crazy move to Denver. I'm not sure of a substitute for it, but i think it's right there with VitaChem, if not better for the type of injury that she has.

Tazmiche

i had a very young guppy that lost his tail pretty soon after getting him home from the store, he lived almost nine months with small regrowth. So you never know he or she may survive. Yes she may struggle with the chemicals but also the fact that the body is still in 'growth mode' because it is a fry is a plus.
As dave has said re supplements there maybe ways to help it. I have started to use aquarium salt and so far i'm pleased.

I truly wish you the best of luck, i adore Cherry barbs. Even though mine have been beasts to other fish in the past i wouldn't be without them, they were my first tropical fish!

Butterfly

I just don't know why Flourish would hurt fry. Plantgeek is a great plant site but all those planted tanks have fish in them also so I just don't know.
Isabella why don't you take this thread to the Seachem forum at Plantgeek and see what they have to say about danger to fry. Would be interesting to know what they have to say.
Please let us know how she is.
Carol

Isabella

Dave, I didn't have the time to go to the store today, but I will go tomorrow morning. I'm writing down all the medication/conditioner names and will see what they'll have. Hopefully, they'll have something.

Tazmiche, I really hope my baby Cherry Barb will make it like your Guppy did. I'm just so afraid it will die of exhaustion (if not of the disease itself) trying to swim without the tail It may be too straining on its poor little body.

Carol, I have asked people on Plant Geek about it: http://plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=63277#63277 but yes, I should also ask the same question on the Seachem board. And Carol, I certainly will keep you all updated.

Do you all think the pH change from 7.8 to 6.8-6.9 will kill my baby even if acclimatized extremely slowly?

Thank you all so much for your help.

COBettaCouple

i think it can adjust.

Isabella

Hi all. The baby is hanging on. I've also noticed that the rest of its fins are ragged, but at least they're there. The baby seems to be eating. Which is good. Dave, they didn't have any of the products you mentioned I'll look for them at some different store(s) if I have the time. Anyway, I took 2 pictures of the baby yesterday during the acclimatization to the Q tank. I was acclimatizing it for over 3 hours. It seems to be holding on today, somehow. The first 2 pictures show the baby with its tail, and the second two pictures show it without the tail.

Attached Images

	With Tail (1).JPG (311.2 KB, 2 views)
	With Tail (2).jpg (317.8 KB, 10 views)
	Missing Tail (1).JPG (164.9 KB, 6 views)
	Missing Tail (2).JPG (200.1 KB, 7 views)