Tigerfishy

Hi all, I need a little help

I have had my betta for just over a month i think. He was originally in a 28l tank with a few little tetras, but this tank caused major probs (killing all the fish in it and my breeding guppy mother when I swapped fish over.)

The tank went back to the shop and I instead bought a 60l to run alongside my 35l which has been established for 4 months. When I noticed my betta was getting sick in the little tank I immediately relocated him to the 35l where he flourished and immediately seemed to get better and more active. I set up my 60 l and had it cycling (fishlessly) for a week and moved him and 3 danios across to it after that week (had been advised bettas are hardy and needed the other tank to let my guppy babies out). He was OK over the weekend, but this morning I noticed that the end of his tail and bottom fins were sticking together. He was white under his chin when I first put tank light on, but that began to fade a while later as he sometimes does that overnight. As I had to rush off to work, i put in some general fish tonic for lethargic fish (as his behaviour was a little sluggish). I just wondered what was causing his fins to stick together. He seemed to be swimming about, but didn't seem right compared to normal behaviour. I really can't put him into the tank he did so well in as I have guppies and baby guppies in it which he might maul! And can't move the guppies across as I have to wait until the tank is more stable for them.

Please help. I know this went on for a bit, but I thought I should give as much info as I could!!!

Amanda

Clamped fins generally means your fish is ill.
What are you water parameters? Bettas are best kept by themselves, as the danios may be nipping at his fins.

Tigerfishy

Have not had a chance to check yet as was in such a rush. The danios never seemed to bother him before, think it might be that it's a new tank and the levels of everything are changing and it's affecting him.
Do you think it might be worse for him if he was feeeling ill before and is more susceptible to the changes as a result?

Amanda

Bettas in general are very hardy, I've switched mine around a lot & have had no ill effects. If his fins looked clamped, my vote is on nipping & teasing from the danios.

Tigerfishy

Thanks, sounds likely as all fish hated my small tank but are fine in the established one. I'll see if I can shuffle fish around so he can eventually stay in the 35l. I split the group of danios up but might put the rest of their group across to keep the quarrelling to themselves. I put the first fish into the 60l tank on Fri, so would it be OK to move the rest of them across just now (just under a week later) at least to give them company in the hope they start to leave him alone? There's 2 more danios to go across but i have 4 tetras that I could add at the moment which the danios like to chase I have noticed. (probably as my tetras seem to be a little cheeky!)

Amanda

Bettas are solitary fish & do best kept by themselves. I wouldn't leave anything in the tank, and let him have a tank by himself.

Shawnie

sounds like it could have started out with others picking on him and now it could be the effects of the tank not being cycled....having it run for a week without fish, wont cycled it ...I would test the tank asap before moving anything to make sure it actually is cycled..otherwise all your fish could get clamped and sick

Tigerfishy

Yes, will be doing that when I get home anyway (passing by the pet shop on the way haha!) just in case.
Will provide an update when I know more!

Tigerfishy

So I tested my water (and got my pet store to double check it!). The only issue was that the ammonia was a little bit high, but it was due for a clean last night anyway which I did after the tests. The girl in the pet shop thought maybe stress even though they are hardy fish. She will go away and have a look at what it might be, and I have to go back on Saturday when she is next in with another water sample and she will let me know what she has found out.

He did seem a little better this morning, swimming about more, hiding less, but fins still stuck. I bought him an aeration set as well last night to cheer him up so maybe he likes playing in the bubbles as he has taken to swimming round them?!!! (Yes, he's a bit of a weird betta, as his favourite hobby is looking at his reflection lol, bless!).

So it does not seem like the water was muich of a problem, but hopefully he continues to get better and the girl can help me out some more (unless any of you knowledgeable lot have anything further as I'm still new to all this)

Amanda

If there was ammonia in the water, that's your problem. You're mid-cycle, any ammonia amount is toxic to fish.

iloveengl

I just wanted to add to the good advice above that my betta killed three danios over night, even after being good buddies for months. Not worth the risk imo. Bettas must be kept alone.

GL!

Tigerfishy

Haha, interesting you should say that as I have been surfing about on here as much as I can get away with at work and saw the thread by Shawnie on sectioning the tank offfor bettas. I have been considering that for a while, and seeing how easy it is and having full instructions on how to do it, we might have Big Red by himself shortly. (provided he doesn't die). Also once my fish have been moved (should take nearly 2 months I think as am taking it very slowly), my guppy tank will need sectioned as it will be quite empty so the same idea will probably crop up there too to keep my randy little males out of trouble for now!!

Shawnie

I agree keep up with his daily water changes....ammonia will cause clampfins and death if not ..get some prime or amquel+ as that will detoxify the ammonia/nitrites for 24 hours until another water change is needed....good luck !

Tigerfishy

The pet shop recommended i buy Stress Zyme (on Sat morning), which I added to the tank for him, and said he should start to look better after a week. I saw Big Red (aka Paul!) this morning for the first time since I added the stuff, and his tail fin is nearly all uncurled, and his top and bottom fins are much better too (in only 2 days). He is swimming about more and certainly eating and looking at himself in the glass again (his fave hobby...)
So it seems he is on the mend thankfully quickly, and now I can't wait to set up his own section of the tank and see him wallowing in colour (and his little castle he loves so much!!)

Shawnie

stress zyme isnt bacteria that will cycle the tank it needs to be added weekly ...the bacteria will die off once you stop adding it....they didnt have prime or amquel+ ?

Tigerfishy

They didn't appear to (unless sold out which they usually are of the really useful fishy products by time I get there at night, grrr !). I'm using it with Nutrafin Cycle and Waste Control weekly as general maintenance which I usually do. (and Aqua Plus during a change obv)

Lucy

Hi Tigerfishy welcome to FishLore

Both Cycle and Stress Zyme are going to give you a false sense of security. As Shawnie said, they contain the wrong kind of bacteria and you have to keep adding it. Once you stop the ammonia is going to build back up.
What is Waste Control?
Have you been adding all these products?

I got a little lost. What fish are where in what size tank?

Tigerfishy

I have 5 danios and 1 betta in 60l, and a couple of guppies (with babies in a baby tank), a few tetras (7 left) and 2 cory cats in my 35l. Tetras and corys moving to 60l eventually so I have a guppy tank.
Waste Control is by Nutrafin and just helps break down all the rubbish (usually use at water changes with aqua plus and Cycle weekly going by bottle instructions.)

Tigerfishy

I just sometimes seem to get a little confused what to do as my pet shop tells me one thing, all you guys tell me something else
I got told to do daily water change on here which i started, but pet shop said no as it takes out any bacteria that has built up and it will take longer to gain that bacteria. I never had a prob with my first tank and all i did was use Cycle, Aqua Plus and added first fish after a week as I did here with new tank. The other tank I only lost 2 fish to New tank syndrome and 1 looked a bit dodgy from the beginning anyway, (poor little danio guy, RIP!)

Lucy

I understand your confusion, who wouldn't be confused with people telling you different things!
Something to keep in mind, we're not here to make any money. The shopkeeper is.

There's very little bacteria in the water. It lives on the gravel, decorations and more so on your filter media.
The thing about cycling with fish, it does prolong the cycle but not because you're removing bacteria but because you're removing the ammonia that the beneficial bacteria needs to feed off of.
But.....we do that for the health and safety of our fish since ammonia and nitrites are toxic to them.

Shawnie

im sorry for all your losses and troubles also...we have all been there many times....just remember one thing, we dont make any money off you by giving advice and we are all out to help and love our fin babies...the pet stores are out to sell sell sell...I would shop around until you can find prime or amquel+ and just do partial daily water changes until the tank cycles properly....

Tigerfishy

OK, cool, thanks for that!
So maybe keep changing water then! I noticed Martini'smommy does a lot of breeding (and is amazing at it!), would love to know what she thinks too as well as everyone else.
Need to stop off at the shop tonight (managed to lose my net ...) so any recommendations, and what do these things do (so i know for future and can learn from this.)??
Shoud I keep with the stress zyme until he gets better, or use something else in case he relies on zyme eventually?
Haha you must think i'm a pest!

haha thanks shawnie! just as I was posting!

So had a quick look and seems like prime and amquel+ mainly available on internet (as not many UK people have access apart from online to it from what I've read so far). It seems like these 2 products are also water conditioners?
if so, it would be a million times better to use prime or amquel+ as it would be 1 for water conditioning and ammonia reduction instead of 1 to condition and also 1 to reduce ammonia...

Shawnie

yes if you get one of those, you do not need a water conditioner also...but ONLY one of those will detox the ammonia/nitrites and still leave it for the cycle process...dont let anyone talk you into anything else at this point....I know there are some members that can get the products and maybe starting a thread about the uk members finding it, would help more

Tigerfishy

I ordered Prime yesterday, should arrive today. The stress zyme I used will begin to wear off on Sat (a week after added) and so I will monitor the water conditions after that (at the moment conditions are within parameters and have been stable for days, prob due to the stress zyme eliminating the ammonia for now until it wears off).
When they begin to change, will monitor ammonia, daily water changes to control and Prime for maintenance and wait for everything to settle. Will be coming up for a month the tank has been running very shortly so should not take too much longer I hope.
At the moment, my betta boy has his tail fin and bottom fin fully uncurled and the top fin is nearly completely back to normal as well. Would love to know which kind of tail he has but has been difficult for me. Will try to get pics on here (but he has always had raggedy fins so excuse him, but I had to buy him when I saw him despite this, his personality makes up for it!)
It sounds like a plan, many thanks for all your help!!