First betta is doing fine, and no tank water from the LPS was added into the tank.
The walls of the tank are covered in these tiny little brown/ creamy dots, definately NOT diatoms. A few were on Galileo this morning, but they have appeared to fall off.
They move around but I have no idea if they are alive or not.
Any idea what they are? How I can treat them? Mass panic? Nothing to worry about?
It might be planaria. Although those tend to be whitish, and move almost all the time. Can you tell if any are in the substrate or filter box?
If they aren't, I'd probably remove the filter media and substrate and betta to a temporary container and clean the tank out. Then refill it with treated water and return the substrate and filter media, lastly re-acclimating your betta to the new water. It might not work, but hopefully would and would save the stress on your betta of putting something in the water to get rid of those things.
wow that is weird...google a picture of fish lice to see if you can compare..but ive never seen so many before like that...they almost look like tiny snails too ..goodluck and id definitely clean up the tank as COBC said ...
I siphoned up all them stuck to the filter wall. As its a temp UGF filter cleaning may be difficult. I'm doing daily 40% changes, and using airline utbing sucking all them that I see. There may have been a few on the gravel. I'm gunna see if anything happens, he's not showing any adverse signs to them, as when they were on him they fell off almost instantly. I'm going to slowly rinse the gravel, and plunge all the plants into treated hot water, then in 1/4 of the gravel I'll do every other day in hot water.
Shawnie:-They almost look like mini-fish lice, but are the size of half a milimeter, as you can see. I'm going to move Galileo to my newly cycled 15 gallon. I have a massive net breeder which he can hopefully live in for fifteen minutes evcery other day as I cange the gravel.
MM:- There are no live plants in the tank, I wish there was, as at least we could blame them on that.
UPDATE: They appear to have little 'propellers' and move through the water that way. They have covered the heater, and are always closest to the light. So, the heater will have to come out for a few minutes whilst I wash it.
Oooh I'm so worried
UPDATE II. They are definately mini Branchiura, I'll upload the video I took of them swimming in the sink (I rinsed my heater and they all said hello) They have a yellowish body with black spots on. Like a mini yellow ladybird.
I'm actually on the verge of a total meltdown.
Last edited by ABCDemily; July 6th, 2009 at 10:44 AM.
Okay, my boyfriend has ridiculously good eye sight and took this picture of them in a test tube. They have obviously black stripes and using JBL online hospital thhingy it's thrown up Miracidium. This is taken directly from wikipedia:
A miracidium is a small free-living larval stage of parasitic flatworms in the class Trematoda. It is released from eggs which are usually shed in the faeces of its vertebrate host. When an egg is immersed in water, its operculum liberates the miracidium, which swims using cilia to find the first host in its life cycle, a mollusc. Miracidia are transmission stages that do not feed and, if they do not find a molluscan host, do not survive much beyond 24 hours.
So if these are Miracidium, then they shouldnt last long as I have no snails or molluscs. The photo I have attached is from the site, and shows the parasite under microscope conditions.
Is it alright to put Galileo into my net breeder (it's 4X4X6 inches)
and sterilise the tank with boiling water? I have over half a 100ml bottle of TSS left as I'm guessing i'll lose the cycle.
I'm so worried
ALSO: Boyfriend thinks otherwise, as the stripes run horizontal across the body, not vertical. But it's a chance.
And: A wonder video of me with a cold (Listen without sound unless you want to hear my terrible commentary. They were swimming around in my sink.
Last edited by ABCDemily; July 6th, 2009 at 11:28 AM.
WE HAVE FOUND, what we hope is, A CURE! I took this quote from another fishy website.
To treat and rid your tank of Argulus, commonly known as fish lice, there are several methods one can try. One of the most effective treatments against the fish lice is using an organophosphate.
Organophosphate has been used successfully on removing lice, fleas and other parasites from dogs, cats, horses and even gardens. However, the United Kingdom has banned the use of organophosphates for use a fish disease treatment. You can still purchase it but it will be costly.
Luckily, this is simply phosphoric acid, which me and Boyfriend (He just said, am I simply known as boyfriend? He is called Thomas now ) have access to at school.
Also, using copper sulphate (CuSO4) has the same effect. We can also get this from school. All we need to do it make up one mol/dm^3 of CuSO4, or a lower concentration as CU ions are harmful to fish in high doses. it's legal in the UK (organophosphates aren't) and it's the easiest thing to get hold of withoutn making nerve gas.
We'll cycled down to school tomorrow after emailed our beloved chemistry teacher asking if it's alright. If not, who says it's stealing if we give it back?
Hats off to the banana dance! I really hope it works too. Galileo will not be residing in tank, he'll, unfortunately living in a net breeder until we get this all sorted, but thats far better than risking him dying of copper poisoning.
yep it looks like lice to me...my oscars had them ...i had to remove them from their bodies it was icky!!!!!! if you are removing everything from the tank, just use the bleach method and you should be fine ....as far as your boy having them, I had to use the copper sulfate also ...but im not sure how smaller fish handle it my oscars were about 10 inches when I had to....maybe someone else with more scientific knowledge can help you...goodluck and take a deep breath !
Good problem solving, ABCD. He'll be fine in the net, I'm sure.
It'll be for about two weeks maximum. I'll let him have some free swimming time by rounding up the other fish and putting them in the net for an hour so he can stretch his fins.
But if you are planning to lose your cycle might not bleach be an easier remedy? And faster?
Doesn't kill off as effecitively. And plus you can't get pure bleach over here, at least I haven't seen any. And copper is very effective at killing off everything. I hope not to lose the cycle, and I can't move the tank to clean etc. I guess if the copper doesn't work then I'll try the bleach.
yep it looks like lice to me...my oscars had them ...i had to remove them from their bodies it was icky!!!!!! if you are removing everything from the tank, just use the bleach method and you should be fine ....as far as your boy having them, I had to use the copper sulfate also ...but im not sure how smaller fish handle it my oscars were about 10 inches when I had to....maybe someone else with more scientific knowledge can help you...goodluck and take a deep breath !
He's going to live in a 4x4x6" net breeder for the duration of the treatment in my new tank. I have to make sure i don't scoop up any of them when I move him.
Luckily if one is on him, it's off straight away. Looks like the just like to hold onto something, then when they realise it's moving, they run away again. It doesn't appear to be parasitic yet I just pray to the powers that be that this clears itself up. it also turns out my UGF has packed up, so I've ordered a nice little compact 3 in 1 filter. How did you dose the Copper sulphate? And how does it work? I'm going to make a 0.3 molar solution (bascially 1 is very concentrated) and seeing as Galileo won't be in the tank he should be alrighty.
Thanks for the help, it's been life saving being on this site
if you are taking all the fish out of the infected tank, making sure there is no bugs on them is a must or they will infect the other tank...but you probably should treat everyone in that tank even if in small doses for the betta because the bug can imbed in them and you dont always see it with the nekid eye......I wish I could remember the dose amount but it was 8 years ago and I dont ..im sorry .....he will be fine in a breeder net .....if the infected tank is empty, id completely disable it and use bleach ..you wont need pure bleach to clean with just when you cycle you need it pure..the copper will kill the cycle so either way, you are going to loose it....no need to go through the entire copper method if you have the tank empty....send a pm to sirdarksol as he is pretty knowledgeable on different methods of different strengths of certain meds...
if you are taking all the fish out of the infected tank, making sure there is no bugs on them is a must or they will infect the other tank...but you probably should treat everyone in that tank even if in small doses for the betta because the bug can imbed in them and you dont always see it with the nekid eye......I wish I could remember the dose amount but it was 8 years ago and I dont ..im sorry .....he will be fine in a breeder net .....if the infected tank is empty, id completely disable it and use bleach ..you wont need pure bleach to clean with just when you cycle you need it pure..the copper will kill the cycle so either way, you are going to loose it....no need to go through the entire copper method if you have the tank empty....send a pm to sirdarksol as he is pretty knowledgeable on different methods of different strengths of certain meds...
Yeah, I think I'll definately move Galileo to the 15 gallon, and lightly dose that tank, as I know too much copper will kill fish and the cycle. I'll put about 2 ml of the weakest stuff possible in there per day probably.
I'll probably drain the entire tank tomorrow. (I'm moving another tank as well so it can all be a mess at the same time) So I'll drain and still do the copper in the tank as well as the bleach, depending on if I can find it, or if it's even legal here lol! I'll get all the gravel out (darn UGF!) give that a super thorugh rinse, and run copper solution through that as I wash. I'll leave the tank to sit for a day with super OD'D on dechlorinator water. Then, I'll add 30ml of TSS (roughly works out alrighty) and the lil fella back in there.
I think when he's back in there I'll do a very very ridiculously weak copper solution just to be on the super safe side.
Thank you so much for the help, I was under the impression that lice were just for big fat outdoor fish.
I'll be on the phone to the LPS to warn them of the impending issue if they did some from there (Which, to be fair, obviously did)
LOL, Emily just wants to play with copper. Yay chemistry! :P
Oh Emily does so want to play with copper! And I loveee chemistry. I've finished school until september (last year exams until I go back for sixth form) and me and the boyfriend are going into school just to see the chem teacher for this, and to mess around with chemicals
Whoa that's major nasty buggy stuff! I'd be super squeamish...
I've read that copper can sequester in the fish's tissue and take up to two weeks to be removed, so if you treat the betta and your other fish with anything containing copper (good idea IMO) I'd do frequent wc's and run activated carbon for two weeks or so.
I'm also an advocate of using bleach 'just cause', unless by 'pure bleach isn't available here' you mean the only bleach available to you contains soap? if so yah don't use that. But you could use pure ammonia, 10 PPM will kill those little buggies right quick.
If this is your 15g planted tank, be warned that the plants may not survive. In minuscule doses, copper is a necessary part of life. However, it very quickly becomes toxic to simpler life forms (plants, inverts, bacteria). A single copper nail pounded into the trunk of a tree will likely kill it as the copper leaches into the tree.
Whatever you do, underdosing is better than overdosing, when it comes to copper.
Also, massive water changes are the only way to remove the copper (okay, there's an acid that you can use to remove it, but we're talking easily accessed means) when you're done with it (at least, according to the above link.) Carbon does not pick it up.
If this is your 15g planted tank, be warned that the plants may not survive. In minuscule doses, copper is a necessary part of life. However, it very quickly becomes toxic to simpler life forms (plants, inverts, bacteria). A single copper nail pounded into the trunk of a tree will likely kill it as the copper leaches into the tree.
Whatever you do, underdosing is better than overdosing, when it comes to copper.
Also, massive water changes are the only way to remove the copper (okay, there's an acid that you can use to remove it, but we're talking easily accessed means) when you're done with it (at least, according to the above link.) Carbon does not pick it up.
We pretty much have access to any chemical we need thanks to a very nice chemistry teacher. We can easily get hold of the EDTA, as my school uses it all the time.
I may move the plant into my twenty gallon planted, or hold it in a small tub with water in as I dose. I have activated carbon and zeolite cartridges in the 15 gallon, so I'll dose very very lightly. I hope for the betta to be back in his house tomorrow, as today we're rinsing the gravel in a copper sulphate bath, then doing the same with the tank, they'll sit over night. Then drain it, then re-fill with EDTA in water, leave for five hours, drain, add the gravel back, then OD on de chlorinated water, then drain and fill with the right dosage of water conditioner. (It also removes copper to a degree )
Whoa that's major nasty buggy stuff! I'd be super squeamish...
I've read that copper can sequester in the fish's tissue and take up to two weeks to be removed, so if you treat the betta and your other fish with anything containing copper (good idea IMO) I'd do frequent wc's and run activated carbon for two weeks or so.
I'm also an advocate of using bleach 'just cause', unless by 'pure bleach isn't available here' you mean the only bleach available to you contains soap? if so yah don't use that. But you could use pure ammonia, 10 ppm will kill those little buggies right quick.
We can't get pure ammonia over here either. It looks like the UK doesn't want fish keepers to be happy!
In the 15 gallon where everyone's residing (Galileo in a net breeder-he hates it ) I'm running Act. Carbon and Zeolite (I think it removes ammonia) And I'll be super mega super lightly dosing, and adding the smallest amounts of TSS just to be on the safe side. I can't see that any got in there, but I'd be so angry if they were. I'm just hoping really, I'll just dose the copper as low as possible, one millilitre per 5 gallons should work I hope.
Sounds like you've got it under control I really hope it works out for you and your fishie babies, that's a pretty nasty (and gross) thing to have happen
Sounds like you've got it under control I really hope it works out for you and your fishie babies, that's a pretty nasty (and gross) thing to have happen
I added a super high concentration of the copper sulphate to the old tank (nothing in it)
Tomorrow I'm moving the tank into the front garden, pouring out ALL the gravel into my bucket, then dose the gravel with CuSO4. Then I'm going to pressure wash my under gravel filter (same with plants etc) (My dad didn't set it up right, so it was actually filtering :O! )
Then I'll put everything back in, move back into place, fill up, OD on the water conditioner, then start it back up again.
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) have access to at school.
Woohoo! I hope it works out!
