BettasfortheBabe

Much to my surprise, I went over to the tank a little while ago and did the "kneel down and press my eye up to the glass" to check on the eggs, and I see all of this movement up at the surface of the water. It took me a moment and a lot of squinting (I suppose after 27 years, my eyes don't see QUITE as well as they used too) and it dawned on me that I believe I am seeing THOUSANDS of fry scooting around at the surface..... could it be?? It has been about 48 hours since the supposed spawn, and it is the correct window - I almost can't believe my luck!
Are these really the new fry? I can't seem to find any pictures of the newly hatched, but one would need more than your standard digital camera lens to get those tiny, see through fish photographed.
Do I need to feed them tonight?
We will certainly be making a trip to our fish store to get some more appropriate food for them after all the suggestions. I've read they don't need to feed yet, but I thought I might defer to all of your expertise!

Im terribly excited, and that in and of itself surprises me! I've never really been a "fish person" - more of a cat person. I find myself wishing I could "cuddle" the baby fish.....LOL. I have to admit, this is way more fun than I thought!

Allie

It is very fun, but it doesn't sound like you did much research. Not offense but breeding betta is like breeding cats...not much call for the leftovers and some remain homeless.
Where did you get your betta from? Were they conditioned before you bred them? If you have survivors what are your plans for them?
Here's the best site for info http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/bettas.htm
The dad needs to be alone with the fry for about 4 days...he will take care of the fry. You need to have either baby brine shrimp ready for them for day 5 or 6 it take sometime up to 48 hrs for the bbs to hatch. Not all the fry will eat bbs at this size so microworms are needed. You need a starter sample which most fish stores don't carry...betta breeder clubs will send samples.
I hope you have lots of time on your hands b/c breeding betta is not a easy chore.
Here are some more sites for you to check out: The IBC info is the best...b/c all breeders eventually are registered with them. Bettysplendens is a part of the IBC
http://www.atisonbetta.com/breeding1.asp
http://www.ibcbettas.org/
http://bettysplendens.com/articles/home.imp

BettasfortheBabe

My husband has a pretty varied and knowledgeable fish background, though since I am the stay at home parent (most of these responses are during naptime and after bed time), the care of EVERYTHING including my husband falls to my shoulders - its a good thing for everyone, baby betta included, that I love all of my small dependent things. My toddler derives great joy from all our animals, fish included. It is something we have added in to our daily routine. Im a well educated human being with a masters degree from Stanford under my belt, and am able to educate myself via the expertise of my fish store friends, and the great help I've found on this website. I am as surprised as you that our betta's bred so easily - its never supposed to happen that way! We never intended to breed bettas, but the incredible bubble nesting of our male inspired us to try. Hurray for him, he has finally fulfilled himself - and everyone seems very happy and healthy. Both our male and female are pet store bettas - still surprising, I know - we kept them for two weeks with him in his big 10 gallon, and she in a small 3 or 4 gallon, with the tanks pressed together so they could see each other. For two weeks we did this - she got fat with eggs, and they were always very interested. The first time we put him in with her, there was no big response from her, so we took her out and did the whole "tank next to tank" deal for another week. This time, we let her spend more time in her perforated box within his tank - when we released her, bam, they knew what to do. Overachievers!

As far as what to do with them, research and more discussion with above mentioned fish expert has lead me to believe that only 10-15 betta (although more is easily possible) will survive to maturity. We have homes for all of them, and the fish store will take them off our hands for us if we need them to as opposed to them seeing a watery grave before their due time. While it may be somewhat sacreligious for me to say on this website, I've had many fish in my lifetime, and have guiltily flushed a few in my day but am NOT planning on this except as a LAST resort. Our local, family owned fish store is a great resource and help to us. They are as excited as we are!

Allie

The breeder I got my pairs from said whatever that makes it to the two week point are the one who makes it. I have roughly 38 babies growing everyday. Not bad for a 1st timer. Also the same breeder had 200 survivors 3 months ago.
So where did you get your betta, what kind are they?

BettasfortheBabe

They are both crowntail - the male was about $11, and the female about $2. He is absolutely gorgeous, and she was the most colorful female we could find I think the reason why they did so well was because of where we bought them - it is a local store specializing in fish, and I believe all the betta's they carry come from a local breeder with whom they've worked for a long time. Im guessing the breeders get their stock from a reputable company, because these fish are quite large and healthy, and based on their breeding success, have strong genes!

Found my digital camera. I'll post a pic as soon as I get a good one.

Allie

Please do...I love crown tails. I have one, he is just a pet. I rescued him for Walmart. The rest of mine are Halfmoons. I want to get some crowntails from breeders in the spring.

BettasfortheBabe

You can see a few pictures of him in the "albums" on my profile - the female wont turn sideways for me to snap a picture. Heh.

Shawnie

your boy is very very handsome..but hes a veiltail not a crownie love his colors!!!!

Alessa

First, congratulation on the spawn, it is indeed very rewarding and exciting.

I just wanted to point out that if you need to "cull" some of the fry, please do it in a humane way... flushing fish to get rid of them is absolutely inhumane and atrocious in my opinion. If you really need to cull them use one of the humane methods like the clove oil and vodka.

Also, I am sure that being a very educated person as you just pointed out, allows you to understand that most stores dont care about putting bettas in tiny cups and destroy their gill tissue with ammonia poisoning. Also, if they dont die in the store and they end up in a "home" they will most likely be placed in a tiny cup or ridiculous container like the "lavarium" where they will suffer a horrible faith.

While I am sure you know all this, I just wanted to point it out, for beginners who might come here for research.

Allie

That is definitely just a veil tail. Veils are not bred by most breeders anymore. They aren't the popular tail types. They are just common so I hope your LFS store will take them off your hands if need be. I would not breed them again if I were you.
He is very handsome, but if you are really into breeding betta. I would get some breeder betta. Check for examples of what is in, in the betta world. Half moon are the most popular by far.
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...0=115=120&1&cg

BettasfortheBabe

Thanks for the info! The cup we bought him in was labeled "crowntail" but that just goes to show you how accurate they really are, even at specialty fish stores. In fact, the reason my daughter and I chose him was because he was different looking than all the other betta at the store.

Speaking of culling the herd, my husband had mentioned that, while flushing them might give them a little bit of a thrill (though I doubt that fish enjoy thrills in the same sense we do!) until they reach the plant, he's humanely tainted the water in a fish tank before. As a child, when his guppies accidentally multiplied and he didn't know what to do with them (he lived on a farm in Minnesota out in the middle of nowhere)his father used alcohol in the tank to deal with the hundreds they did NOT keep. Glad to hear that my father in law wasn't just trying whatever happened to be around the house to handle the excess fish! Whew.

We will NOT continue to breed them after this. I hadn't really expected us to succeed so quickly - he's a gorgeous, friendly little fish. I hope some of his spawn take on his characteristics!

Allie

Most time when people breed lfs betta they lose the fry.The parents aren't 100% healthy. Male betta are always in the mood to breed. As long as there is female near by he will keep trying. Typical male behavior

dr.fluffanutter

From what I've read, simply pouring alcohol into tank water isn't the recommended way to euthanize fish, though it will get the job done. I'm fairly certain that an emmoulsion of clove oil and water is first used to anesthetize the fish. Then, after they're knocked out and can't feel anything, alcohol can be added to make sure they don't wake up.

Also, I know what you mean about accuracy. The Petco I work at gets veil tails labeled and sent to us as crowntails often enough. It's frusturating for me personally, but there's not much I can do.

Martinismommy

Congratulations on your spawn...You have your work cut out for you now lol...I'm assuming you read up on betta fry needing to be raised in a bar bottom tank....If they are in a tank with gravel they will not make it...They have to be able to chase their food (live microworms) in order to eat...Betta fry are very picky eaters...

You are right about the average spawn only ending up with around 15 fry but I wouldn't count on it...If all goes well you could end up with 50 plus...They require a LOT of devotion to keep them alive though....Lights need to be kept on for the 1st 3 weeks so they can see their food.....I could go on for days but I'll spare you by saying if you have any questions I'd be glad to answer them.....

Your male is a Veiltail...Please don't flush the babies......

BettasfortheBabe

Thanks for the links, Allie - very helpful. You guys are AWESOME.

Took a family jaunt to the fish store tonight: no microworms. They did have frozen, farmed, just hatched BBS and we've purchased some for the future once the bettas are larger. I went ahead and took your advice Allie, and purchased some appropriate food for the larval bettas (for ages "day 3-1 month") from the IBC website. It should arrive in 2-5 days, and since they just hatched today, I think we should be okay.

Poor swimmer is frantically caring for his babies that are now raining from the bubblenest. Poor guy. Fatherhood is hard, especially the first time around!

Is it wrong for us to be having fish for dinner tonight? LOL. I almost feel bad.

Matt

LOL Caviar.

Nice pictures

pamd

Not unless you are having betta egg caviar lol!

That's so exciting about your fry! I'm glad to hear you're doing your research, listening to the betta breeder experts here (I'm not one of them, but love to follow and study as a vicarious exercise), and that you're getting on the right track by purchasing more appropriate food. I'm surprised you didn't know this before breeding, and that you didn't know your lovely boy is a Veil Tail. Best of luck with the spawn.

Did you know the first really high-quality spawn can cost $1,000 or more to raise properly depending on number of fry, not to mention countless hours of research and upkeep? What's a $50 to $100 betta pair compared to that?

After that it gets less expensive since you'll have most the equipment you'll need, and you'll already have done a bunch of the research. But it's an ongoing process, money- and time-wise, even for seasoned betta breeders.

Try to take care of these little living creatures as best you can, then if you have to cull some, please do it humanely. Bettas have beauty as well as hearts and minds, even when they're tiny babies.

Meanwhile, I wish you luck with the spawn. I hope you and your family enjoy the miracle while you do all the hard work ahead for a successful spawn.

pamd

matt, I posted the caviar joke above yours and we were posting at the same time. lol!

Matt

LOL!

That is funny

BettasfortheBabe

I certainly wasn't prepared for the readiness of our pair to breed - I admittedly did not buy our baby betta food, thinking there was NO WAY it would happen. Thank goodness for internet fish stores!
Our local fish store is excited too, and the man who has been helping us will "take some off our hands" if we become too overrun or have too many of them in two weeks to properly care for. He will also provide us with clove oil and a tried and true, humane method of controlling the fish population if it gets out of control and it threatens the overall health and happiness of the tank.

It's funny, as there was no labeling whatsoever for "veil tails" at the store we purchased our male from. They had crowntails, delta thai, and one other rather expensive breed (plus a bunch of females) - which is why I was surprised when I was told he was a veil tail. We chose him for his color, and his "friendliness" - he follows everything that passes in front of his tank, which thrills the kids to pieces. I think its quite thrilling that the babies hatched on the birthday of my 3 year old.

Poor Swimmer - what do you all think about us taking him out and returning him to a smaller tank tomorrow? or the next day? I've read conflicting opinions as to when he should be removed from the newly hatched fry, but he is just running himself ragged and there are more fry wriggling out of the bubble nest than he can keep up with.

By the way, we only had rainbow trout

Shawnie

hes not "just a veil tail" hes very beautiful and maybe because the breeders arent breeding anymore, will make them more popular...and seeing how thats mostly what ppl are buying, they gotta still be somewhat popular unless you pay big bucks for them......all but a few of mine are vt and they are loved just as much ...

Allie

I didn't mean anything by that she said he was a crowntail, I was expecting a CT.
Most lfs get their veil tails from Thailand/China from large scale production hatchery, especially the veils, Like puppy mills. The reason why you see mostly veils in lfs is b/c they are cheaper to buy in larger quantities than other tail types. Other tail types are more expensive to create so therefore are more expensive to sell. Sorry if you thought I was being a betta snob...I was speaking from a business point of view, since this is what we've been doing for the past while..breeding quality fish for profit.

Martinismommy

I have Veiltails too and I adore them....There will always be a market for them....Most pet owners prefer a Veiltail....(probably because they have never seen a halfmoon)

If the Father is showing signs of being overwhelmed you may want to remove him as soon as possible and lower the water level to about 2 inches....I just lost a whole spawn of over 100 to a 1st time Daddy...He was doing great when I went to bed on day 2 (a little overwhelmed with the raining of fry) and the next morning all my fry were gone and his belly looked like Santa Claus lol....

Sounds like you are doing a good job..I wouldn't act to quick to thin out the spawn....More than 2/3 are probably not going to make it to week 2 anyway....

Pandora

Congrats on the little guys!
Sounds like you're on the right track now, and have a lot of good advice. You'll probably lose a fair number just through inexperience and newbie mistakes, I agree with Martinismommy not to go culling too soon.
I started off with bettas to breed something that wasn't guppies, and got hooked, so be warned you may be stuck in the betta fanatics club for life once you raise the lil ones up.
Lots of good food and clean water are the keys. If you're having trouble getting them to eat the frozen baby brine, swirling it in the water, especially around where the sponge filter is bubbling, will make it look somewhat like it's swimming and help the babies figure out it's edible. Live is best, but as long as they're eating it well, frozen should work fine!

BettasfortheBabe

So far today, Swimmer is still just "caring" for the fry by blowing them back into the bubble nest as they fall - I think we will remove him from the breeding tank this evening before "caring for" becomes "devouring". We will also be turning our small filter on again tonight, per advice of the fish lore forums and our fish man, and are currently waiting for the baby food to come in the mail. I haven't actually seem him eat any of the babies yet, and as a first time father, Im told it could easily be a very different scene than we are experiencing I have, however, seen quite a few dead fry, but in comparison to who is left, we've still got a nice large, healthy spawn.
While the fry are doing amazingly well, alternately, my preschooler was diagnosed with walking pneumonia today, so we will be spending lots of time in the house to care for and watch our little fry grow.
We were told not to change or disturb the water in the breeding tank for at least two weeks - do you agree?
One more quick question - is there "age" calculated in terms of day 1 being the day they hatched, or the day the breeding pair spawned?