Allie

I tried to breed Zeus and Hera just to see how it would go. I was surprised at how they weren't aggressive toward each other.
They got along well but Zeus's bubble nest building skills aren't very good. He gets a little nest going but it disappears. I tried them twice, first time Hera dropped her eggs all over the tank and the nest was gone.
Second time, they seem to be all excited doing their breeding dance and what not. Zeus even lead Hera to the nest a few times. I went to sleep at 1am woke up a 3am to and check on them. They were both asleep in the plants. LOL!!
Just check a few minutes ago the nest is gone again. I don't think Zeus is a breeder, which I guess is a good thing. I am not sure how the hump from having double tail in their background would affect their fry for sure being as just one person told me I could have issues.
Here's some pix of them flirting with each other...and displaying. Look how far Hera's eggs spot is hanging down.

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Martinismommy

Allie.....

I have a few suggestions that may help.....Here is how I did it and I have now completed 3 successful spawns.....

I set my spawning tank up in a 20 gallon sterilite clear tub...I added 4 inches of water....Keep the heater at a constant 80 degrees.....Use only live plants NO plastic....I also added almond leaf which is said to help the bubble nest remain strong......I cover the top with plastic wrap to keep the moisture and heat in which helps in the bubbles not popping...I have nothing else in the tank no rocks or decorations...The gravel on the bottom of your tank needs to come out...It will cause problems if he does spawn because the eggs will get stuck and develope fungus.....I also see your water level is way too high....Again, only put it 3-4 inches deep....

I hope this helps....I have to agree with the hump on her back...It looks incorrect....He looks good to me and if he were mine I'd use him on another female and place your girl.....

How long have you been leaving them together before giving up? It can take up to 3 days for a spawn to occur..What is he building his nest under? Here is what a healthy nest should look like....

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Martinismommy

Here is a veiw from the top of my spawn tank....

Martinismommy

Spawn tank

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Allie

His nest looks nothing like that. Far from it. My boys I use to have made better nests with no females in sight.
I do have a rubber made container here, I will try that. Thanks
There is only left overs of gravel at the bottom of the tank...the other stuff is in there so Hera could have hiding spots. I had plastic wrap on it the 1st time but not last night. I leave them over night, but I remove Hera when there is no nest.
I am going to go set up the rubbermaid container around 20gs or more this afternoon.
My book said to have tanks over 10g at 4-6", this is a 10g. SO maybe the RM container at 4" would work, plus they cannot see around them.
Do you leave the light on or off?

Zeus right gill plate is always sticking out, ever since the night Heather brought them to me. I wonder if this is hindering his bubble nest making ability?
I have watched Jasper RIP make a nest faster than Zeus has been and it seem to take a lot out of him in doing so. Maybe he isn't a good breeder?
I can't wait to get my other pairs in 2 weeks...this is so interesting but I only get to see part of the breeding not the whole thing. Frustrating!

Allie

Wow that is it for hiding spots? I guess I was over thinking the aggression part.

Martinismommy

Allie....I don't turn the light on during the courting process.....If they haven't spawned by the time I go to bed it is lights out and see what happens in the morning....This last spawn I went to bed and he had made a huge nest during the night and they spawned the next morning...Just remember no deeper than 4 inches....And I agree the fact of them not seeing you or anything else seems to keep them focused on the task at hand....It doesn't look like a lot of hiding places but the female knows where to go to get away from him if she is not ready....

Hope things go better this time around...Do you have any almond leaf?

Allie

Thanks, me too.
I just want the experience before the newbies come.
Nope no almond leaves yet, waiting to do an order at the end of the month. I wonder if other big leaved plants would be work too? They say in my bookto cut a Styrofoam cup in half and use that instead...would a plastic lid from a small container do the same or be too big?
Can you tell I am impatient? lol

Alessa

Ok, I am no breeder here but attisons betta spa is usually available in most places. It isnt as good as the almond leaf, but balthier has built HUGE bubble nests with the help of that thing.

Allie

Need the actual leaf for the betta to build the nest under....that stuff could help with the water quality tho.

Alessa

You caould add the spa, and a fake leaf or the styrofoam cup.

Martinismommy

No Allie.....You don't need the leaf for the nest...It is for conditioning the water which makes for stronger bubbles.....I cut a styrofoam plate in 1/2 and tape it to the back of the tank.....You can see it in the photo of the bubble nest....I then cut a square out of the middle so I can see what's going on under it lol.....All 3 of my spawns took place under the plate....

Allie

Well then I am going to follow your advice to a T again. Off to the dollar store I go for Styrofoam cups and pens ( I have been writing so much in my fish jouranl that I ran out of ink in all my pens. lol)
Well time to get my butt of f my computer and start switching up the breeding tank.

Allie

Thank Karen.

Martinismommy

You're welcome Allie....I hope things go better for you this time around....Post a photo of the spawn tank when it is complete if you can.....

Allie

I will later as my batteries are dead and need to recharge.

Pandora

Sorry I haven't been around much! Lots going on...
Martinismommy had a lot of great advice (you're becoming quite the expert! ) so I just have a couple of things to add...
You don't need to have a super nest like that for them to spawn. I've rarely had my boys make such a lovely nest, and had them spawn with no nest at all a few. A lot of people seem to over-think the nest thing!
For leaves... if you have oak leaves available locally, they'll work nearly as well as the almond leaves. Just dry them and they're good to go.
Definitely leave them in for a few days at least... one IBC breeder swears by the 3-day rule, and I've on occasion had them take up to a week or more to figure out what they're in the tank together for!
Finally... one trick to help convince difficult spawners is to do a large water change with water a few degrees cooler than the tank water. Often they'll spawn as the temp approaches 80 again.
Good luck! My dry spell has finally lifted... have about a trillion eggs from my oranges and they're still at it

Allie

for those tips too Jen. I really thought the nest had to be bigger than was Zeus was making. I over think everything sometimes.

I heard that about oak leaves, there is a huge tree at the end of our drive way here. I guess I'll be looking the fool, picking leaves off a tree and bagging them in an apartment parking lot.
Ah well the things we do for the hobby.
I am a nervous breeder can you tell not so much since now since I've seen how they interact in the same tank for breeding purposes. Zeus and Hera are cute together.
So basically chuck em in the breeder tank, and wait to see what happens after 3 days or more.

Patience not a virtue here.