lolagurl

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgur...%3Den%26sa%3DN
these are even tinier then the cups at the pet store.

Sparkling Diamonds

I was looking for a place that would direct me to contact info. I'd love to write them an e-mail telling them about my bettas, the two 3 GALLON tanks and one 5 gallon. And i'd direct them here to see how we treat our bettas and how happy they are. I'd also point out to them a few contradictions in their own article. Saying how larger is better and how if they have more space, the more they swim. Then they say that their fish are completely happy in little jar building bubble nests... Just because they build bubble nests doesnt mean that they're completely happy. Looking at my Neil right now, yes he's in a time out in his cup. He's got a bubble nest. But i know for a fact that he's miserable in there because of how he reacted when being placed in there and how he wants out now. Gosh... people like that really push my buttons. Sorry about the rant... hah

Phloxface

I saw that site a long time ago. It's horrific how they are treated like merchandise!* * Those tiny bags they ship them in is SO cruel!
The Bettas that get shipped to Petsmart (and I assume most other chain stores) are packed in large styrofoam coolers packed in the same cups they sell them in. It's not great but still better than those tiny bags! They also come from local breeders so they only travel for about an hour at most in there before getting to the store.
Those Thailand breeders considers themselves Betta experts but I just consider them CRUEL!

sirdarksol

This is why I started the "contact big chains" thread. If you can get the chains to change the way they do things, it's more likely others will follow.

nmwierman1977

Just so you know those cups they are in are really no smaller then the ones at Petsmart.And, also when they need to be shipped out of state or country they need to be bagged. There really is nothing cruel about it. IMO the bags are much safer when being shipped long distances because they are bouncing around and could actually hurt themselves if in one of those hard plastic cups. The bag is much softer for them to bang against and they will not get hurt.That is exactly how Miami aquariums ship their fish and it is very safe for them and very well done. They still put them in those styrofoam coolers for extra security and safety. That is just my opinion on it. Natalie

Phloxface

They don't ship in bags THAT small do they?* I would never buy from anyone who shipped a fish to me in a bag that small! The fish cannot even turn around in there. There couldn't be more than 4 tablespoons of water in there, barely enough to keep the fish wet! I agree shipping them bagged is safer, but the bags need to be large enough to allow the Betta to swim a little and to prevent the ammonia from killing them during the trip, and also enough air to sustain them. IMO nothing less than 2-3 cups of water would be acceptable to me for shipping.
I don't think I'd ever order a fish online either way. I just find the idea of a fish going through the mail too scary. Not all people working at the couriers really care whether there is a live animal in there or not. Who knows what horrors they could go through during shipping?
I don't know what pet store Bettas have been through either but they don't have a long distance trip to the store and at least I don't have to wait for my fish to arrive in the mail and worry what he's going through and whether he'll be alive when he gets there. I'm just too much of a chicken for that!*
I would buy from Miami Aquariums ONLY if they were nearby and I could pick up the fish myself. I'm sure they do everything possible to ship the fish properly but once it's in the mail it's out of their hands. Unfortunately there are no good Betta breeders selling to the public in the Toronto area that I know of.

nmwierman1977

I received RJ from Miami aquariums. I was very impressed withthe way he was packed. He was double bagged. first in I would say maybe a 6 oz bag, pretty small( but I think they purposely do that so they can't cause harm to themselves like biting themselves in turning around and also less bouncing around in a smaller more contained area. It's all for safety purposes.) Then that bag is in a bigger bag for more protection. The bag was also wrapped in newspaper.Then it's put in a styrofoam cooler for more padding and protection. They also either put an ice pack or heat pack in the packages depending on weather. If the weather is too severe they will wait to ship till it's better for them.They also ship overnight only. I live in Phoenix, AZ and they are in FL. I received RJ in less then 24 hours. He is the healthiest Betta I've owned by far and I have not had any problems with him at all except for a minor case of tail rot, but that was my fault. Rose orders all of her Betta's from them.They are very good and care a great deal about their Betta's. Natalie

Eskielvr

What is Miami aquarium's website? I've been trying to find it for a while but can't get anything other than the actual aquarium in Miami

chickadee

chickadee

Yes it is true that you do NOT want your fish shipped in a great big bag or they will be thrown all over the place. I have had bettas come in bags the size that the fish are packed in at petstores to take them home in and they arrive in poor condition sometimes as they are so shocked by being tossed about. The bettas in the tiny bags just nestle down and rest for the day or so that it takes for them to get here.

Miami Aquariums does not feed them the day before they are shipped so they are not going to produce waste for the trip to pollute the bag any more than they have to. They are given an Oxygen charge in the little bag and some nice clean water and since the fish are not big hulky bettas they have plenty of room in the small bag, but not so much that they feel insecure. They come a little stressed from the trip (little Damon was white when I took him out of the bag, but within 5 minutes he was fire engine red .... remember he is afraid of the dark) but you can tell from the health of them that they have been loved and cared for. I am sure that Natalie will agree with me, they are shipped just as they should be.

Rose

COBettaCouple

When we saw them open a box of bettas at petco, they were in bags so small it was pretty much just the size of the betta.

nmwierman1977

Yes, Rose I agree with you whole heartedly. Natalie

lolagurl

well i must have a different petsmart then you .If you look at the site i showed you the first pic with the sea through cups are the ones at our petsmart. if you look at the styrofoam cup they keep them in in the next pictures, you can tell by the comparison to the hand holding it it is smaller. Also the fish in tjhe styrofoam cup always has to be bent to fit and cannot float straight like in the clear plastic cups.

sirdarksol

I agree. Some of the cups on the huge pallets are about the same size as the Petsmart cups, just maybe a bit taller and a bit narrower. On the other hand, some of them are really, really tiny.

My problem isn't just the size of the cups, and I should have said this before. It's also in the sheer number being held. If they didn't have so many fish that a huge number of them will die before being bought, I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it.

armadillo

Shocking! I have a problem with the fact that the cups are not even transparent, and that they're tiny. Sure they're not that much smaller than the cups in petstores, but I have a problem with that too.

poefox

The problem is this: frankly it is not economical to keep bettas in tanks when breeding them or selling them. Consider that only female bettas are ever sold in stores in tanks for instance because you can theoretically keep them together if they're young enough. Males WILL fight. Bettas are not such expensive fish (like say ghost knives) that they can be cost effective to keep in an individual tank. That's the bottom line, ladies and gentlemen. Most other tropical fish commonly sold can be kept in community tanks. Bettas--well some are wary of even doing that on an individual basis with them for the simple reason that males can be aggressive and a fair number of other fish are social fin nippers. It simply isn't possible to sell them in tanks or breed them in tanks and still make money doing it.

armadillo

Yes, these are sensible arguments, but there's small and there's small. Perhaps if transport/storage was better regulated, like for sheep? That looked like a betta warehouse.

nmwierman1977

Well I didn't scroll all the way down and hadn't notice the little 3 oz drinking cups. Those are a bit too small for even a betta, but being kept in those bigger ones like the ones you see at Petsmart is really not that bad especially since like Poefox said it's nearly impossible to keep them, males especially, in tanks. It way too expensive to do that for a breeder. I mean obviuosly if they have the money to at least house them in the little 1 gallon tanks or even containers more power to them, but you have look to where the breeders are coming from too. If Betta's were more sociable fish and not so aggressive towards certain other fish I'm sure they would be kept in tanks with the other fish, but they simply are not sociable fish. Natalie