Phloxface

He's not getting better. As soon as I take him off meds within a week he's floating on his side again. I'm treating him again with Maracyn-Two but this time it's having no effect. He is probably immune to it. I need to find a completely different med. I'm going to try Tank Buddies Fungus on him since it says it treats swim bladder disease. I really don't ever want to use this product on my fish because it contains a warning that it causes cancer and that sounds so risky. I don't want to cure him and then give him cancer later on but I don't know what choice I have but to risk it now. He's all clamped up and has no energy. He's still eating but as soon as he's done he goes right back to his corner and sleeps all clamped up. It's depressing. I'm afraid he will die soon if I can't clear up this bacterial problem. There is another product called "Binox" which claims to be strong and helps swim bladder infection as well as other things but I can't get it at any store nearby. I may order some online but it will be days before it gets here. Has anyone ever used or heard of it?

Also, this is weird but he's also been, (for lack of a better description) sneezing or coughing. I don't know if fish can do that but that's what it looks like he's doing every once in a while. I can even hear a sound when he does it that sounds like a sneeze as he jerks his head forward quickly. I've never seen anything like this...

COBettaCouple

I worried about that warning too until i found it on something that wasn't even related to meds or food.. can't remember what, but it was ridiculous and then Rose told me how CA is with their warnings and i do believe they'd put warning labels on anything.. so the tablets are safe i think, especially for the fish since the warning is for humans i believe anyways.

I'm sorry Lava's not been getting better. I know it's hard to watch them & know they feel bad. I hope the Fungus Clear will do the trick. I've not heard of the Binox product before. No clue on him sneezing/coughing - first time i've heard of that with any fish.. but i've only been in this since jan. so maybe it will ring a bell with the members who've had more experience.

Best of luck with Lava and we wish you both the best.

Phloxface

I just got back from the store and they were all out of Tank Buddies Fungus stuff so I bought the Jungle Labs medicated Anti-Bacterial food which is the exact same ingredients as the Fungus Eliminator. (sodium sulfathiazole and nitrofurazone) I was doubtful about Lava eating it because he's picky but I fed him two pellets just now and he gobbled them up like candy. They are quite big too and I was worried he'd spit them out if they were too big but he had no problem. None of my girls could handle the size of those pellets though, I'd have to crush them smaller. (hopefully I'll never have to give it to them) It says to feed him only this food for 10 days and it can be used with any external antibiotic meds so I will continue with Maracyn-Two just in case.
I searched for info on fish sneezing/coughing and as far as I can see fish don't do that. He is DEFINATELY doing a great imitation of coughing/sneezing though!! I am starting to think he is doing this for attention. He studies me intensely whenever I am near and last week I was sick and coughing a lot. His tank is next to my bed and computer so I'm beside him a lot. He must have watched and listened to me cough and thought it was some form of communication. He snorts so loud it has woken me up several times the past few days and when I look at him he's just hovering there wagging his tail and looking at me. I at first thought it was my imagination but today he started doing it while I looked right at him. He jerks his head forward and makes a loud audible snort as bubbles come from his mouth and then he looks at me innocently like "thorry mom, I'm thtuffed up". He is SUCH a drama queen! The intelligence that Bettas show never ceases to amaze me!

COBettaCouple

I'm glad Lava went for them so readily. I guess you could also put the gel-tek stuff on small pellets for the girls if they ever needed it.

You know, with how smart Bettas are and how Lava likes attention, it would surprise me if he learned that gets your attention and I'd love to see his act on video. He's quite a betta!

Phloxface

Okay, I think I may have figured out what Lava's bizarre coughing is all about. He has PARASITES! I saw him tonight flashing wildly around the tank scratching his gills on anything he could! The "coughing" was probably the same as the "yawning" that fish do (which is actually not yawning but how the fish flushes water through their gills to clear out irritating dirt and debris). Lava was flushing his gills but more violently because he has parasites irritating them and he is trying to flush them out! No wonder the antibiotics are not helping him... They are keeping any secondary infection caused by the parasites from getting worse but are not fixing the underlying problem.
I have stopped the Maracyn-Two and vacummed his tank and did a 40% water change to get rid of as many free swimming bugs as I could. I'm running some fresh carbon through his filter for a couple of hours to clear out any remaining antibiotics and then I'll remove the carbon and put in some Tank Buddies Parasite Clear, which kills internal and external parasites. I'll continue to feed him the antibiotic food to prevent infection. I don't know if this is related to his inability to swim properly or this is just one more problem for the poor guy to deal with. I hope it's related so I can fix it and have my happy healthy boy back swimming freely through his tank. It's so sad seeing him just floating at the top not being able to do anything. It must be so boring for him!

COBettaCouple

Poor little Lava. He's a tough little guy though and I'm glad you saw him flashing & scratching his gills so you now know the plan to get him back to full health.

voiceless_kat

Good Luck with Lava's treatment Phlox! I think we should all receive medical /pharmaceutical degrees after several months of treating our fish with various "conditions".
I am beginning to believe positive thinking by us fish parents and lots of doting attention to our bettas is what is going to get us through in the end!! Val

cherryrose

COBettaCouple

How about the "Fishlore University Degree in Betta Parenting"?

Phloxface

Lava is not getting any better. He's still really itchy and scratching his gills on anything he can find. He's getting another dose of Parasite Clear today. The anti-bacterial food I'm giving him seems to be bloating him and making his swim bladder problems worse. I'm going to need to give him peas today only just to get rid of his bloating. I feel so bad for him. He just never seems to get better. All he does all day is wedge himself between the filter tube and side of tank, in the back of the tank. He only comes to the front to eat. He seems so depressed and lonely.

COBettaCouple

I understand how you feel for the little guy.. i hope his meds knock that stuff out so he can get to feeling good again. He's a tough little guy so he's going to pull through and get healthy.

Timesdragonfly

hopefully the meds will start to work. Hang in there!

nmwierman1977

I really hope that lava get's better after this new dosage of meds. You've been working for so long to get him better and so hard. It will definitely be rewarding when he finally does get better. Natalie

voiceless_kat

Phlox, my heart breaks for you and Lava....remember, never give up, never give up, never give up!!! Persevere with the treatments, and he will fight his way back in no time. Val

lolagurl

is this yawning normal because i think my fish did that

chickadee

According to a post that Dino made somewhere I think the yawning means he is not getting enough oxygen which would indicate the gills are not working well enough and are damaged or seriously infected so he is going to need a serious antibiotic as well as an antiparasite med. Can you check with Drs. Foster and Smith for a combo of meds to fight gill flukes and gill disease? They are so helpful and could help you.

Rose

lolagurl

wel im not for certain..is there any other signs the fish owuld show?

Phloxface

I've read elsewhere that yawning occasionally is just how a fish flushes out it's gills. When irritating bits of debris get in there they suck water in and push it out of their gills. Kind of like us clearing our throats or blowing our noses. I think if the fish "yawns" a lot it means there is not enough oxygen but if it's only once in a while it's normal.
Lava had some VERY itchy bugs in his gills so he tried to violently flush water through them to flush them out. To me this looked like coughing or sneezing and I could actually hear him snort. He has stopped doing that so the meds must be helping. He was still scratching his gills on the side of the filter yesterday but not as hard. He got a second dose of Parasite clear today. It will probably take a few days to completely clear up. Then I just have to fix his swim bladder problems if it isn't already too late. I am ordering some Binox which is supposed to be a very strong med which works for swim bladder disease and other bacterial infections.

OneMom

Hi:

Thanks for answering my post today - as you know Angel is having similar symptoms to Lava.

As I mentioned, she started Maracyn yesterday. Within 2 hours of her second dose today she is having less difficulty staying upright. I'm going to get her the Maracyn 2 tomorrow (as you suggested) and starting treating her with that as well.

She's still laying on top of the tall plant in the corner, but she isn't drifting to her side any more. I'm hopeful that she'll continue to improve.

Since Lava & Angel both seem to be having swim bladder problems I thought you might be interested in her progress on just the Maracyn so far. I'll keep my fingers crossed for your little Lava!

Phloxface

I hope she recovers! Swim Bladder is VERY difficult to treat. I treated Lava with Maracyn-Two and Maracyn and he "seemed" to get better but about 10 days after stopping meds he started tipping again. This has been ongoing for two months now. Make sure you treat her for a full ten days even if she seems better (do a water change after the first cycle of meds which is 5 days and then start again). The bacteria seems to be VERY stubborn! I am ordering an antibiotic called "Binox" made by Jungle Labs which is supposed to be much stronger and works for swim bladder. Something you may want to consider if the Maracyn doesn't work.
Please do get the breeding box or net for her to keep her near the surface. It has holes which allow water to circulate and meds to get through and because it attaches to teh inside of the tank will keep her in the same warm water. I can't stress this enough. Because your fish is a "sinker" like my Phlox was, she is in more danger of drowning than anything else. Lava is a floater so he won't drown. There is nothing more heartbreaking than watching a fish drown because it was too weak to swim to the surface or gets tangled in a plant and is too weak to get away. Don't worry about the box being small. She is too sick to care about swimming around and can't anyways. She will need rest and being only 2 inches from surface will help her not to use all her energy trying to struggle to the top.
Keep me updated on your progress. I can't help but think I might have been able to save Phlox if I could have only prevented him from drowning before the meds could help him.

Phloxface

I started treatment with Fungus Clear today. I was hesitant to try it because anything with the word CANCER on it scares me. I don't want him getting cancer... However, nothing else has worked so far and Fungus Clear claims to treat swim bladder disease. I had no idea it would turn the tank such a dark greenish-blue! It doesn't seem to bother Lava at least. Shortly after I put it in I found him at the bottom of the tank wedging himself under a leaf so he wouldn't float back up. I told him I don't think the medicine works quite that fast and he might have to be patient. He so badly wants to swim normally again. I feel so bad for him and really hope this works. If it doesn't I can still try Binox which is a very powerful antibiotic that also claims to treat swim bladder among other things. I need to order that and other things next weekend from Dr's Foster & Smith.

The Parasite Clear helped get rid of his gill beasties and he is no longer itchy. At least that worked...

COBettaCouple

I wouldn't worry too much about the california cancer warning on the fungus clear really after talking to Rose about it, but for peace of mind, you can use disposable gloves or just not touch the tablets and sort of push them out. It does give you a funky looking tank, but we're hoping it will work for Lava.

Phloxface

I'm not worried about myself. Lava is the one who has to soak in that carcinogenic soup. Fungus Clear is not something I would ever use or recommend except as a last resort. It may not even help him and 3 months from now he could grow a cancerous tumor and die. Cancer is very common in fish. I'm pretty sure that's what Whisper died of.
They don't put those cancer warnings on there for nothing. It is proven in lab tests to cause cancer in animals. I was told by someone who works at one of my LFS that Jungle Labs is developing an alternative to Fungus Clear without cancer causing chemicals and will be phasing out the current Fungus Clear. Even they know this stuff is no good. Yes, it may well help fungus and finrot, but at what future cost to the fish?
I'm only giving Lava one course of this stuff and if it doesn't help I'll move on. I'm not going to risk his life on something that may not help.

OneMom

Hi:

I've been watching your posts so carefully...I keep hoping Lava improves. Angel is still doing very poorly. I have her in the net that you suggested & she barely moves around. My net stretches across the entire surface of the tank & rests two to three inches from the surface of the water. So if she begins to improve we assume she will start swimming the length & width of the tank. We keep watching for this sign, but she doesn't swim around unless we are feeding her.

This is day 8 of Maracyn and day three of Maracyn 2. Every night when we go to bed we feel doubtful that she'll still be with us come morning. Well, she's still here, but it is getting so sad to see her getting thinner & thinner. This morning we noticed that her top fin is beginning to shred as well. It seems impossible to think that she is getting finrot again. Between all of the medication in her water & the medicated food I'm surprised that she has finrot symptoms. We did a 25-30% water change before we added the day 6 Maracyn dose and the first Maracyn 2 dose. We've also still been giving her a pea treat each day.

I feel we haven't helped her at all. Obviously I haven't found the right solution for her.

COBettaCouple

I was under the impression the warnings were for humans and not the fish.. something for us to think about.

I'm sorry to hear Angel isn't improving yet. It's hard to watch them suffer.. There is a more powerful med - Binox that might be worth trying if the current ones don't get her turned around.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...pc=1&N=0&Nty=1