Sparkling Diamonds

Poor little Patrick's gone through so much lately...

Dealing with a new tank, new tank buddies... he's quite the little trooper!

However, yesterday, i noticed his dorsal fin was a bit out of whack, and i just sat in front of the tank inspecting it... and had no idea.. it looked almost whithered...and the tip looked like it was about to fall off!*

Before i bought him, i had read a ton of posts in here, and i had done some research..
But I'm still no expert!
I bought a ton of stuffs... a variety of foods, Maracyn Two, just to be safe.

I awoke this morning to find Patrick's poor little tail ripped in the middle! Personally, I got this gut feeling that he had fin and tail rot.
So, i dashed to get his meds, and begun him on those as soon as i saw his poor little tail.
I've been at work for the last 7 hours, and came home to find it's gotten worse.*
Looks like his tail's just deteriorating away and a chunk of it is about to fall off.
My heart's going out to the poor little guy.
He's swimming around all skiddish and he's always up against the walls of the tank.
But he never has his fins fully sprawled out, they're kind of clumped together the majority of the time, unless he's laying in the current, and that happens to brush them all open.

What causes Fin and Tail rot?
Is it stress??

Directions say no water changes necessary is readings are in ideal range...
This i find interesting.
I bought testing strips for the ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites... and they have been testing at zero.
However, this tank hasn't gone through the nitrogen cycle completely yet.
I bought the tank on Sunday and a plant and had that started up, and just had the filter running.
And i got Patrick on Wednesday. [Since i read somewhere that the cycle doesn't start until the fish is in the tank, since there's no source of ammonia until it's arrival]
How is it possible that they always test so low?
It's a 3 gallon tank, with two live plants, and a couple snails, and Patrick...
I'm not understanding.*
Though, i think i did read somewhere [Probably a secondhand source] that the test strips aren't always accurate.
Any idears?
Should i still do the water changes?
If so, how much and how often?

Anxiously awaiting a responce- Kellie & Patrick.

cherryrose

Poor Patrick. I am sorry you are both going through such a hard time. Have you read Welcome and Betta Care Guide - Please Read First!!! It is at the beginning of this betta forum. If not please read it now. The tank you have has not even begun to cycle yet. Under the freshwater beginners section of fishlore there is another article you should read: Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Article - Read First. These two articles will get you started on how to take care of your Patrick.

As for the fin rot, it can come on very suddenly, as Patrick's apparently did. Stress can contribute to it but, on the other hand, he may have (and probably did) have it when you bought him. The two most important things things to do in order to treat him is to have clean and warm (about 85 degrees) water. Do a 50% water change daily and slowly raise his water temperature to 85. Continue treating him with the Maracyn 2 as directed. Since he is in an uncycled tank you must also do the 50% water changes daily.

There are a number of people on this forum that will chime in to help as soon as they see your post. They are much more knowledgeable than I am. I hope that you and Patrick make it through this test. We all needed help when we first became betta parents, so don't feel bad about asking questions.

CherryRose

Sparkling Diamonds

Patrick has been undergoing meds, i did a 50% water change last night when i got home.
Since, when i got home, the water was so extremely cloudy! And one of my plants looked like it was deteriorating away and there were holes in the leaves, and it was letting off seeds and such, I got worried, and took out the plant, and did a water change.

The water looks better today, though it's still quite cloudy.
Does the water gte cloudy during the nitrogen cycle?
I don't recall reading that anywhere.
Or could it be the Maracyn two that's making it cloudy?

Patrick is looking much better, I'm glad to say.
It looks as though his tail has finally stopped deteriorating, there aren't any more chunks of ithanging by a thread, and he's swimming around with no problem.* [I should really try to catch some pics of him for y'all to see. ]

I have read the Betta Care Guide, and the Nitrogen Cycle Article.
I just had some questions outside or what i read in those articles, so ifigured this would be the place to ask.

I definately believe that Patrick already had fin and tail rot when i bought him. I'm glad to see that i've been able to help him through it though. I'm going to give him a water change here, once i've finished this post and then run off to work. His water is at 83 at the moment.

The test strips are still saying there's no sign of any ammonia, nitrates, nitrites, and the water is at 7.0 pH.
However, i'm not sure if that's accurate.
So, i'm going to go out and get that Master Kit.
And i have to get a gravel vac.

I'm just really worried about Patrick in this murky water, it just looks aweful.

Phloxface

The Maracyn 2 makes the water cloudy. Don't worry about it. It won't harm him. Since you are doing water changes you need to remember to add meds to the water replaced or he won't be getting the full dose. This will take a bit of math and measuring since the packets/tablets are made for 10 gallons.
The test strips are useless. You need the proper liquid test. Your tank is still too new to have readings in Nitrite and Nitrate. It may not cycle properly until after you finish the meds. His fin rot comes first so deal with that first. Get the Master test kit in the meanwhile. Also, make sure you have no carbon in the filter or it will take the meds out of the water. Just use a filter pad or filter floss (you can buy this cheap at any fish store).

OT: Your posts are coming out formatted oddly... centered. I don't know if it's on purpose or not but it makes it hard to read.

Timesdragonfly

Hello, welcome to the group! I just went through a fight with fin rot with my betta, Grim. It took two rounds of meds using maracyn AND maracyn 2 together to get it stopped and see new growth. Yes, The maracyn 2 does make the water quite cloudy.

BioSpira would be good to use after you get the fin rot under control. You don't want to use it now, because, unless I'm mistaken (someone please correct me if I am) the bacteria in the bio spira may be killed by the meds, and then you'll be right where you are now, and have a little less money to boot!

I'd advise against taking him back for the simple reason that the replacement fish will likely have the same problem or some other problem. Unfortuantely our little betta's don't get the care they deserve at the pet stores. If you want a healthy fish, there are some ppl here who order them online. They seem to have a little better luck. I don't have the patience for such things, but I tend to think that while we feel we are 'rescuing' our little bettas from those cups at the store, we are really giving those stores our business, and thus due to supply and demand we are supporting the stores that sell them like that.

let me get off of my soap box!

good luck with the fin rot. There are some great ppl here and they will help you through just about anything that could come your way. They've helped Grim through finrot, constipation, a hydra infestation, finding proper tank buddies... and the list goes on!!!!

~J~

Sparkling Diamonds

^_^ Thank you!

Well, everything that i'm trying, is just worsening his condition. I feel so helpless, that i can't help him! He's got a huge, gaping hole in his tail, now and his tail is also splitting in two. It's so depressing looking.... I don't know what to do! I'm thinking of ordering a fish that i found online, he's jsut absolutely stunning!

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/aucti...shm&1174274620

I saw him, and just fell in love.

I completely understand and agree with your ideals towards buying Bettas at the pet stores. It is giving them the business for having sickly fish, but at the same time, those fish don't deserve the treatment that they're being given and should get the opportunity to live a better life. So i spose my feelings are mixed a bit.

poefox

Actually my petstore has already begun improving conditions somewhat...they're still in small containers but they can at least move around a reasonable bit. So hope is on the way.

By the way: sometimes it can be bad. I won't lie...bettas have a hard time with that. I have a hard time with wanting a new one and being afraid that he might die horribly after my last experience. But be brave: several people on here have had it worse than you describe and their fish have pulled through, survived and begun to heal. I am sure (and pray it will be so) that it will be so for you.

COBettaCouple

We recently had a fight with a case of fin rot and found 2 doses of "Fungus Clear" by Jungle Labs did the trick, have you tried that? He still lost some pieces of fin after we started the treatment, but then stopped - I think part of his healing was losing the bad parts of his fins. Sadly, after finally beating off his fin rot, he died of dropsy.. poor little guy. http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=TB630

And the Maracyn 2 route you've been doing.. I've read that if all else fails, home surgery on the fins can be done. I'd recommend you google that and read the articles you find to determine if you'd want to undertake that route. We haven't & are pretty new to the Betta world so I don't know the amount of success that option has.

I hope your Betta pulls through for you. There should be plenty of info on this forum about what you can do to help fins regrow after the rot gets cleared out at last.