chickadee

I know the subject has come up before and now it is going to come up again. Right now we seem to be having a real problem with the bettas that are catching a disease or developing a condition of some type that kills them. If you have any desire right now to buy a betta, it is my advice to you that you take this into consideration.

Do not please buy bettas with the idea of putting them into divided tanks. You do not know if you might be getting one of them who is infected who could take out the whole lot of them or infect your whole tank. The importance of a quarantine tank has been stressed for a long time and the idea has been put out there and many agree that it is a necessary thing and then fail to do it. NOW it is a true necessity. If you buy fish do not put them together until you know they are healthy.

The bettas are still much safer and more likely not to be spreading anything in a one per tank situation. This is a deadly and unfortunately as far as we have been able to tell incurable problem. It strikes too fast and takes them too quickly for anything to be done. Many times you do not even realize the fish is sick and unless you carry a large pharmacy for your fish may not have anything to use and if it is as we suspect viral in nature, antibiotics do not work on viral problems.

Please, please, please use a quarantine tank or at least do not use a divided tank. If you already have then be aware of your fish and their behavior and if possible pull them to seperated tanks temporarily until you can determine whether they are healthy.

There are some breeders and dealers who do quarantine the fish themselves but be aware that this is not necessarily the total answer if you have put the fish in with others. They still are going to need the caution of being very careful to wash hands between tanks and not using the same nets or equipment between tanks or going from one tank to another with syphons or pythons or water changing equipment. Do not assume everything is okay until this is over. We have a bad situation here and we have done a lot of losing in our betta community lately and I would love to see it stop.

BUT it is going to take caution and work to get it there or we will be writing a lot more condolences to our members.

Thank you and PLEASE be cautious.

Rose

Shawnie

SUPER advice rose!

I didnt quarantine mine so ill be watching them like hawks!

the only time they have alone, is in my 3 gallon tank for a couple hours before I put them in their bigger one...I know this isnt enough time but I do it so they can color up and I can check for ICH or any other sickness's...

the advice is so appreciated and given with love, and I hope everyone heeds it....(course its too late for me darnit!)

sirdarksol

Thank you, Rose.

This seems to be the iridovirus that has been killing so many members' dwarf gourami. We aren't sure, of course, as none of us have the equipment necessary to test for a viral infection.
If this is the same virus, there is no way to tell if a fish is sick. Members have purchased gourami and brought them home. Very suddenly, after a week, the little guy just stops eating and then everything goes downhill very quickly.

If possible, you may want to buy any bettas you get directly from breeders for the time being, as bettas, by nature, need to be more isolated, and a breeder is less likely to have a virus that originates from a dwarf gourami floating around the tank system. It is still always a necessity to quarantine a new fish, though.

One last request from the activism-minded one here. Please, if you've lost fish to this, let the pet store you got it from know, and let them know what you think the problem is. Even PetSmart and PetCo deserve to be told (though they likely won't apply the knowledge). This may get them to try to figure out a way to isolate their bettas from the rest of the stock, or, even better, stop ordering dwarf gourami until the distributors in Singapore get this problem under control.

capekate

thank you Rose for taking the time to post your threads on this issue. Im sure that a lot of frustrated Betta owners are looking for answers to their questions and looking for any help and advice they can get.
thank you...

mlinden84

Thank you for the great information! I was considering getting another betta this week, but I think I will wait for awhile. How long has this problem been going on?

ThisGuy

how recently has this started is it just over the last month or so or is it longer than that?

Allie

Casper was the only one who stayed in his own tank since I got him. I did switch up decorations tho...so who knows what that transfered.

Allie

Good advice again Rose.
It's no fun loosing 4 betta in 2 days.

Allie

I have been loosing betta like crazy for the past almost 2 months, 6 gone. One was only 5 months old.

shellbell4ever

I just finished setting up my new (2.5 gallon)QT tank!!!(my old guppy fry tank they have gone to a friend) as my other one (5 gallon)is in use for Clyde (Fin Rot)and after losing my Vasquez so suddenly I am not running out to get any more Betta's any time soon
Is there anyway to sterilize a vacuum syphon in between uses?As I only have one at the moment and 6 small tank's that I use it for?I do have a bucket and Individual Nets for each tank though.

Allie

Really hot/boiling water and some sort of disinfectant...rise well for awhile. Syphon it from the sink to a sterilized bucket.
Note: I used boiling water on my silk plants...some fell apart. Hot water is good enough with a disinfectant.

sirdarksol

The only disinfectants you should use on an aquarium are: Pure bleach or pure ammonia. Bleach can be dealt with by using dechlorinator, and the ammonia will be dealt with during the cycle.
Boiling water will work well but, as Allie suggested, it may not be good for your stuff. I really wouldn't suggest using it on a tank, as it may weaken the glass or the silicone seal.

The other method of killing the virus is to leave the tank empty for a week or so. Viruses' biggest weakness is that they can't survive on their own. They need host cells to inhabit. If we're wrong, however, and if this is some sort of bacterial infection, this may not work, so sanitizing the tank is probably a better solution.

Dark_Rider2k3

gah! this completely ruins my idea =(.

I had my 20gal that I was using for my betta, and I was going to divide it and put a female in the other side.. but never mind now

I'll wait until it *hopefully* get's safer, or i'll ask my LFS what they are doing to protect against it (and won't buy from any chain stores)

chickadee

Based on a post earlier today in the Stickied Posts of the freshwater fish Disease Board by sirdarksol. I would consider this a wonderful suggestion for any fish with the symptoms of this disease:

Rose


Edit: Okay, folks. I have a completely untested theory based on something Dave said in another thread. This disease leaves the fish too weak to swim, meaning they spend their time on the bottom of the tank.
It is possible (not likely, considering the other symptoms, but right now, I want to give you all as many options as possible) that what is killing gourami and bettas is not, directly, iridovirus. Instead, it may be that they are dying by drowning.
Dave suggested putting the fish in a floating container that allows them to sit nearer the surface. If it's easier for the fish to reach the surface, it may not drown. Some viruses (think cold or flu) just have a certain duration before the body can fight it off. If you survive the symptoms, your body will recover.
Again, I do not want to get anybody's hopes up too much, but it's something to be tested. Trying everything available to us is the least we can do.
Last edited by sirdarksol; Today at 05:53 PM.

__________________

chickadee

Plants can be disinfected with a solution of alum. It will take an overnight soak and then a good hot water bath to clean them but it will disinfect them. (Real plants can be soaked in an alum bath too but it will not be possible to disinfect them as they will not survive the hot water bath so they should probably be discarded)

Salt can be used in combination with sunlight to disinfect but takes a longer time to disinfect. Sunlight is a wonderful disinfectant but takes longer. The nice thing about it is it does not destroy things. (seals, vinyl, rubber, rocks, etc.) the way that bleach does. Boiling will work with some things and baking will work with some things after they have been cleaned well with water to start with. MOST cleaning agents should not be used. It is true that you can use ammonia, vinegar, and bleach. Those are the only ones I know of. Of those, ammonia and bleach are the only ones I would personally trust with this particular process.

But I would definitely give sunlight its chance as the great disinfector in this as viruses do as has been suggested die without a host and so do bacteria eventually. Several days of dry sunlight will do wonders to clean any bugs out of the tank especially if you have a nice bright window where the sun can really catch it for several hours a day. But this is after another method of cleaning has already been done.

Rose

chickadee

This has been an ongoing situation for some time with Gouramis as I understand it but we did not understand until just the last few days that there was the posibility that there was a chance that it could be cross contaminating or crossing species lines and hitting the bettas. Bettas are usually so solitary that it did not enter our minds but the symptoms are so similar and the actions of the two are so much alike and the whole problem seems to be interrelated. So this is our theory. It has by no means been proven as we do not have that capability. This is just a theory based on the best of our knowledge at this point and the whole set of circumstances that have been posted by our members.

Everything we have here points to this and all the members that are losing fish have no connections to each other through stores or vendors or breeders so this is something very widespread and something not associated with one water source or store. So we are forced to look at it as a disease process that is common to them all.

Based on the knowledge that we have at our disposal this is the best we can do and we hope that it will help all of you in making any decisions you need to make in either buying or caring for bettas or other Labyrinth organ fish you are now considering dealing with.

Thank you.

Rose

Alessa

yeah... since i heard so many cases of bettas dying exactly the way my gouramis died and both are labrynth fish i figured the virus spread somehow... and i made this thread with my hypothesis, please check it out. Betta Keepers Read Please

i really want to get a betta, but i dont want my heart broken, and i better just wait.

rileyrk190

Yikes! i am waiting for the arrival of my wilds, that i ordered a month ago. Is this virus stemming from the wild caught? Or, is this virus spreading amongst captive breed fish only?

capekate

HI Shellbell
that was a great thought there... I never did think about the vacuum we use, just nets decorations, etc.
I use one for the community tanks which I have neither D.G's or Betta's in them.
I use one small vacuum for the 10g Betta tanks.. each have their own net. Im going to start disinfecting the vacuum as well!

Thanks ALLIE
for the cleaning suggestion!

Blub

Rose, do you know if this disease is going around UK betta as well? In the UK they tend to keep them in communitys - not ideal but better than cups. Obviously, this comes with the better water conditions... So, maybe it's not in the UK Betta? I sure hope, as you know I'm doing a bit of Betta shopping ATM. I betta get Betta shopping before this problem gets serious!

However, I must contribute one little nugget to this difficult puzzle: if you remember a little while back a bought 3 DG's from one of my best LFS (Yes - finnaly one that knows all about the fishless cycle!) and they all succumbed to 'the disease of doom'! So, I suspect it is to do with the sources, perhaps genetics? Maybe, as increased demand for Bettas forces the fish farmers to mass produce, the Bettas are succumbing because of weaker genetics? I read something about that being the source of the gourami problem, so this is probably related. The same source indicates that slight bumps or 'ripples' on the fish's body may indicate the precence of parasites, and also says to help prevent this you should medicate your fish during QT for intestinal nematodes.

chickadee

I suspect that since most bettas come from the same area of the world, it is really rather worldwide. It began as a problem with Dwarf Gourami and as I understand it was able to hop over to other species. So I think that while every breeder is not affected by it, you would be wise to try to find a local breeder than to buy from a Local Fish Store who may be buying their supply from the Orient and having them brought in. That seems to be a lot of the problem right now and they say that the Dwarf Gouramis that originally came down with it seemed to come from the Orient. I would not be ordering from anyone right now that you do not trust to have a good quarantine program and I would definitely not order off of aquabid right now. There is not a quarantine program at all with the fish that come in from there. It is to the transshipper and to the customer in a matter of a couple of days. It is not the fault of the transshipper or even necessarily the people at aquabid but there are those breeders at aquabid who have been there a long time and have excellent reputations and would know if they have been affected by this and who care about their reputations enough to not sell sick fish and then there are those who do not have a long enough selling history to know what to look for or to care whether the fish they sell are sick or not they just need or want to make the sale. Be sure if you do decide to deal with the breeders on aquabid or ebay right now that you are dealing with someone who is really competent or someone who has a good reputation. Their fish may look good but if they do not have a good selling history or if they have just started it is not worth it. There are good vendors and breeders that you do not have to take the risk and that is a lot to put out for a fish and not to know what you are getting. I purchased two a short time back - one from a well known and established breeder and the other from someone just getting started. I took a chance. The fish from the established breeder is fine and healthy and the other little guy is going through this problem which is affecting a lot of the fish. No eating and cannot hardly swim and is weak and listless and goes through periods of being swollen and then not. I do not know if he will make it. I am doing what I can for him but it is a lesson to me.

If you do decide to purchase a betta, I would truly try to make sure it came from a local breeder if possible.

There is no medication that will help with this as it is a virus and no antibiotic or medication known as yet will kill a viral infection. I have been treating my little guy with vitamins and Fish Protector and garlic to help keep him comfortable and for me to make myself feel better I put Sulfathiazole into the tank to make me feel like I am doing something to help even though I know it has no effect whatsoever. He is still alive when some of the others have passed but I do not think it is because of the meds. I guess I am just lucky.

Rose

Blub

Aw, sorry about your Bettas Rose. Next time I'm the LFS, I'm going to be telling them all about this problem and telling them to get it FIXED! Thanks for the advice as well, I won't be buying a Betta from the Orient anytime soon! Wait, aren't there really big fish farms in the US? I readin one of my books that there's a lot in the Florida area. Perhaps our LFS could turn to them?

Oh, and any Betta sellers on eBay you reccomend?

chickadee

Oh, Hatchet if it were only my bettas it would be bad but not this bad but it is bettas all over the place. It seems to be covering all of the US and Canada too. And I do not know about Europe but I am betting everywhere that imports them from the Orient and gets them from breeders who are not aware or do not care that they have this problem or who allow their fish to somehow have contact with the water used by Dwarf Gouramis (they say that this is a water bourne virus) can be passing it along. So if the stores who have had a problem with their Dwarf Gouramis use the same tanks for other fish they are probably passing it along to other fish as the virus is then in the water. The other fish may not even have the disease themselves but may carry it on to other fish in tanks they are taken to. So you see there is a HUGE problem.

So if you had a Dwarf Gourami problem and 2 of them died, I would most certainly sterilize that tank and make sure that everything that was touched by that water was thoroughly cleaned and sanitized before using it with any other fish.

Rose

COBettaCouple

All of our Bettas, other than Chloe & Rocky, are from Florida breeders. Ironically, now that I can get all the Thai bettas that I want, this thing pops up.

chickadee

Thank goodness that you found out before you did a lot of Thailand purchasing. I do not fault the transshippers or even most of the breeders but I am sure there are some who just do not care and are sending fish that they realize are infected.

Like I said, Diablo is fine but Marty is struggling but today seems to be a bit better so maybe there is a way past this. I am still hopeful. He is swimming more and will rest sometimes on top of his log instead of on the floor of the tank all the time. I tried to have him floating at the top of the tank and even lowering the water level but it seemed to distress him so we went back to the way it was. He is not any worse off and actually seems to be a bit better but is still a bit swollen but he is eating a bit more daphnia now.

Rose

Blub

Well, you know the placed I got the DG's? That's here I got Malachai. You read the story about Mal's last few days on earth, and those weren't symptoms of iridiviuos.... So, maybe that place is safe? I'll ask them next time I drop in if they import from the Orient. I hope this clears up soon, it was bad enough to happen to Gouramis but now it's infecting several of the world's best aquarium species! I've discovered eBay Bettas by the way... I with I had that cash right now - geez I need those RCS to breed! I've found a male, and also a female I like, for the acctual fish I don't pay much, but I get killed on postage! $15... The starting bid for him is $15 as well...

Wait, can you give me a bit more information on that 6 month Quarantine thing for any live animals entering the UK? I found an Orange VT on Aquabid (in the US) but it says shipping worldwide. I thought you would know since you told me about it!

chickadee

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg...mId=1078112848

Here is a little more information about the regulations with a number to call for more information about the details about some of the finer details.

http://www.efishbusiness.co.uk/forms...es/default.asp

I do not know if any of these forms will apply to importing fish for you but they tell a lot about the government regulations and such. Some of which may have changed since I have heard of them. You may want to be able to contact some of the agencies listed by e-mail or phone if necessary for further advice as to how to go about doing this on an individual basis. It still sounds hard but maybe not as hard as when I first looked into it.
It still sounds easier to see if a LFS would be willing to do the purchase and get the fish through on their license for you as they would have it easier than to do it on an individual basis.

Rose

Blub

Thank's for the links, Rose. I need to find my money now - lookey here: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOP-QUALITY-RT...d=p3286.c0.m14,
isn't he a beut? He's going for $40 right now, about. Maybe, I could just get my RCS to 'pay me back' in a few months? Plus he's in the UK! Also this young llady: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HM-FEMALE-bett...d=p3286.c0.m14 I can't tell what tail type she is - but she's a Singapore import which worries me slightly. Oh, and, is 98.8% good for a fish seller? I was unsure, because there must be some DOA. I thought you'd know, seeing as you get so much stuff from the net.

chickadee

If you look up their feedback to see who gave them the negative or neutral ratings you will find out who gave them and for what. It may be that they feel they did not get the right fish or that the fish was not as they described it to be. It does not always mean that they were DOA. Some buyers are very hard to please. Miami Aquariums who have the best fish I know of and who are very cautious and good with their fish only have a 97.0% rating and when I went back to read the negatives it was because someone thought the fish did not look like the picture when they got there. I thought it was a little petty unless the fish was a horrible critter which I cannot believe. I think you need to go into the feedback and find out WHY they got a negative and then see. If it was for serious stuff then maybe you look elsewhere. If it was for nonsense like this then go ahead and say the people who knocked them were just complainers.

Rose

Fishies-for-me

I have never bought fish online but I love to look at them and I love to read the ratings on sellers. I also would take into consideration the way the sellers reply to negative feedback. Some get downright nasty and I think I would hesitate buying from them ....the sellers that reply politely and keep there cool even when the buyers are being nasty to me are a much better bet...good luck.