luna

I think I've got it set up the way I like it...but that doesn't mean a fish would...I made sure the fake plants aren't too close to the heater, and I think I've made a decent balance of open space and hiding space, but I'd like a few opinions before I add the water, condition it, and plug everything in.



If I were a fish, I'd like it...but, despite my love of swimming, I'm not a fish.

Drea

looks good, how are you going to cycle the tank? Is this the tank for a new betta?

luna

Drea

Oh... what ever you do DON"T use that bottle of Cycle...it will only give you problems. Do you have a fish store that would give you a used filter or gravel, or another friend that has aquariums to get these things from? That is the easiest way to put the bacteria in the tank.

King_Snuggles

petco sells their own brand of bio-spara. i used it and it work perfictly. I don't know if you have a petco near you but i got this stuff called Bacteria. it adds the bacteria you need to cycle a tank. the best thing is you use the fish with is. if you do ues it dont change the water of even test it for 10 days then test and do a water change.
besides that looks good!

luna

luna

0morrokh

Fastest way to cycle a tank, aside from getting used gravel/filter media from a cycled tank, is using pure ammonia. See if you can find that at any stores (make sure it's unscented). If you can't find ammonia then a chunk of raw fish or shrimp, or fish flakes also work.

The problem with Cycle and most other cycling products is that they don't actually contain the right bacteria for cycling so they're pretty much useless, but the tank can become dependent on them so if you ever stop using it you're in for trouble. Bio-Spira works because it contains the strain of bacteria that actually would naturally grow to cycle the tank.

Have you read this article on the nitrogen cycle? http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

King_Snuggles

I agree with Omorrokh go with a fishless cycle and use a small chunk of raw fish. The process should only tank around 2 weeks that way (hope your paticent) but in the end it will pay off and you will have a happy health fish, than if you just rush it.

COBettaCouple

Cycle has the wrong type of bacteria. Used constantly, it creates an endless series of mini-cycles that can be harmful to fish due to the water-chemistry changes. We used it when we first started for a couple months. Couldn't get our tanks cycled. We stopped using it and they finally cycled.

On a side note, that Tetra submersible heater that you have in there may have trouble keeping the water at 78 in your 5g. They have trouble keeping 2.5g tanks at 78. We also had one go nuclear and cook the 3 baby BN albino plecos and a daphnia colony in the tank. I'd recommend a Visitherm stealth heater when you can get one.

luna

Barbrella

I would exchange the Cycle for a bottle of Prime, if you don't already have some. That's an excellent conditioner to be used with every water change.

luna

COBettaCouple

You might want to place an online order at drfostersmith.com, petmountain.com or thatpetplace.com - you could get a visitherm stealth heater and a bottle of prime, plus anything else you'd like to order. Petsmart should carry both products and most stores honor the website price on the heater.

luna

I really don't like ordering things online, especially with shipping times and costs being what they are. I'm in the middle of an exchange for something I'd ordered online (the original item was defective, but the replacement is fine), and that's stressing me out more than enough...I can't imagine how much more stressful it would be trying to handle that for something I actually had an urgent need for.

If the heater's known to be unreliable, I can look around for a different model...and I've already set aside the Cycle to be returned. What would Prime do that the stress coat won't?

COBettaCouple

Prime takes care of the chlorine, chloramines AND other heavy metals in water. Prime helps lock ammonia, nitrite and nitrate toxins in the water (always a good thing but especially if you have a spike or minicycle happen). Prime also enhances slime coating.

luna

COBettaCouple

If you get Prime, look at walmart where they have the travel stuff. The empty bottles for putting shampoo, etc in is what we use to measure out the Prime. You only need 1-2 drops per gallon and the dropper bottle really helps so you don't end up wasting a ton of it.

luna

Pardon my wall of text, but I want to make sure I get things right...

Whew...okay. Mom and I went out to do some stuff today, so I did some returns while I was out. I also looked around online a bit more, and saw that if I get all of the things I can't find locally online from the same vendor at the same time (so I only have one shipping charge), the price total will actually be less than I'd have spent locally for inferior/insufficient products...so I'm going to be ordering some stuff online after all.*crosses fingers*

I figured that since I don't have a fish at the moment, I don't really need to worry about the time it takes to have things delivered. I do have a question, though. I've got a sample thing of water conditioner that came with the tank, so I don't have to worry about the chlorine/chloramine issue right away...so, in theory, I could start cycling my tank now and wait for the rest of the stuff to get here, right? I don't need a heater or test kit to start the process, do I?

Before I actually spend money on anything, I'd also like to know which brands/products to avoid and which are preferred. These are the things I now require:

A heater - if that one wasn't going to be as reliable, I figured I should return it and get a different one before I used it...and the Visi-Therm Stealth that I saw online was about the same price as what I'd paid...I'm guessing the 25W one is the one you meant? Are there other heaters for my size tank that have a good reputation?

A comprehensive test kit - The one I'd found in the LFS was horribly overpriced, from what I could tell. Does it matter which one I go with, or is API the only one I should be looking at?

Water conditioner/treatment - If I'm going to look for Prime (or something like it), there's no point in having something else that would be replaced by it. Is Prime THE way to go, or are there other similar products that are just as good?

Foods (for after I have a fishie) - I've seen people talk about dried/frozen brine shrimp, blood worms, and pellets. Are there any brands that I should look for or avoid, when the time comes?

King_Snuggles

i dont know about the heaters but the best test kit is the API masters test kit, most people here will agree with me. prim is the one most people use i use aquasafe from tetraaqus and have found no problems with it ever. and for food it really dosent matter as long as he will eat it. be weary of live foods and the potential disease hazzard. i don't use any live food for that reasion. hope that helps

chickadee

Test Kits: The reason we really only recommend the API test kits is that they are the only really reliable ones around. The others are almost as expensive and are not going to give you accurate results some of the time so why spend the money? It is worth the while to buy them. And yes you will at least need the ones for the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate tests during the cycle process. The thing is by the time you purchase those 3 tests seperately, you have spent enough to buy the whole Master Test Kit with ALL the tests in it so you just as well do the whole thing to begin with. I know that is hard to do but this is the important part of set-up, the beginning and you will need to know what the tank is doing during the cycle process and the tests are what are going to keep you informed of the progress of your cycle. They can wait for a couple of weeks but then you are going to want to know what is happening after that.
WaterConditioner: The reason that Prime is recommended is NOT that it is better than the others so much or that it will take the chlorine out better or chloramine out better but that it is in the long run cheaper and more economical. You use so much less to do the same job that it goes so much farther that you get so much more for your money it pays to buy it. I use NovAqua+ and Dave uses Prime. They both do the same thing but I am betting Dave gets 10 times as much water treated out of his bottle than I do mine for about the same amount of money. Because it takes only a drop or two of his solution per gallon and it takes more of mine to do the same thing. Mine has fancy stuff like echinacea and vitamins in it but it does nothing really more than his does. So Prime is really the better VALUE.
Heater: Here you do not want to skimp. The Visi-therm Stealth is by far the Cadillac of heaters for more than one reason. First it has a LIFETIME WARRANTY and they make it to last that long. Others carry a 2 or 3 year warranty and will burn out in that length of time or sooner. You will forget and throw away the receipt and box and you will not save the warranty and then you will be unable to do anything about it. Do not buy any other heater. It is worth the extra to get the best heater you can buy. It looks nice and they make it to last forever because they do not want to have to give you another one for free. They work and they are accurate. I have never lost a fish from one overheating or one failing. Do NOT get the Visi-therm Deluxe only the Stealth. It is a glass heater and will break and I have had them do it.
Foods: If you are buying pellet foods for the betta, do not bother with any brands but the Ocean Nutrition Atison's Betta Pro, Atison's Betta Formula, or Hikari Betta Bio-Gold Every other pellet I have tried on the bettas has been too big for their mouths and has to be crushed for them to eat it and once it is crushed does not float for them to be able to eat it and they will ignore it once it falls to the floor of the tank. Some of them will eat Freeze-dried Bloodworms and most of them love them but only the Hikari brands are the ones recommended by me. Hikari makes the very best of most of the betta foods as they know the size and needs of bettas. Atison's know the bettas size needs too but be careful of some of the other brands as when you get them home you will spend a lot of time preparing the food for the betta to be able to eat it. Frozen foods are good but a single betta does not eat them fast and there is waste involved. Also if you buy frozen foods, Hikari is the only brand I would consider as they can carry bacteria due to poor handling or processing. Freeze dried brine shrimp is okay for an occasional meal but should not be fed more than one or two times a week as it is not up to the total nutritional needs of the betta and is really rich for the betta.

Food Brands I tried and my bettas would not eat:

Nutrafin
Tetra
Aquafin
Any type of flakes (bettas mouths are really not shaped for flakes and while some owners may be able to give their bettas flakes and have them accept them, my little spoiled darlings would never even attempt to try them.)

Rose

luna

Rose, thanks for the detailed answers. I'm a bit of a geek and a stickler for details (okay, I'm a control freak who's too smart for her own good), so knowing WHY particular items are or are not recommended helps me a lot more than just "we like this but not that". As soon as I saw you'd posted, I knew I'd have the answers I was looking for. You rock.

So, if I were to order my test kit, heater, and conditioner (beyond the sample I've got to start with) sometime this week - meaning they'd be delivered within about 2 weeks - would it be okay to start cycling? I know the cycling wouldn't be done by the time it gets here, but it should be at a good point to be tested...or am I misunderstanding something? I know cycling is going to take quite a while, and getting it started while I wait for the rest of the stuff I need would be wonderful...and make me feel like I'm doing something besides twiddling my thumbs.

chickadee

I think you could start anytime you want to. I do have a small suggestion that may make your life a bit simpler and not add that much to your expense. It is a lovely little device and I have used them a lot. It is very nice but entirely up to you.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...87&pcatid=4387

I put one of these up in on the inside of each of my tanks and they last one year. It tells me when I have ammonia. This saves me from testing constantly (I only do it about one time a week) and has saved my bacon a few times when the tanks have gone haywire for some funny reason I had not any notion of and gone into a mini-cycle in the middle of a water change week. (medication, overfeeding, wrong phase of the moon?? )

Now I do not know what method you are using, Flakes?? they may take a couple of weeks to start producing any ammonia but then should start to produce it and it will be interesting to you to be able to track the progress of the cycle. It is the slower of the methods but you will get there and the results will be as effective as any other as long as you do not plunk a big load of fish in the tank right away. One fish will be enough for a while until it settles in. The ammonia method is a bit faster and cleaner but harder to come by sometimes and some have said not as safe but I did it one time and had not a bit of problem. I do wish you the best with your cycle and if there is anything I can do to help please do not hesitate to let me know. Just remember patience is a virtue with a cycle and you will be rewarded with a happier fishy.

Rose

luna

You must be psychic...I was going to ask about getting an ammonia monitor!

As for the flakes, that's a yes. My tank came with some sample flake food, which I wouldn't be feeding my future fishie, so I figured I could still put it to use by starting to cycle with it.

Drs. Foster and Smith seem to have the best prices, even with their shipping charge, though they don't seem to sell the Hikari bloodworms...which aren't even a required item, so it's no big deal. A question about heaters...the 25W and 50W are the same price and size, so I'm not sure if it's worthwhile to get the more powerful one even though my tank is only 5 gallons and doesn't need the added power. Would having an overpowered heater be a problem, or would it just work harder but less often? I figure, if they're the same size and price, having the stronger one would be helpful if/when I upgrade.

A related question...how far away from the heater should my decor and gravel be? I don't want to damage anything - heater or decor - by having things too close...

pamd

Yes, yes for the API Master Test Kit! To save a little money, I delayed a while after getting my aquarium and cycling it, but in hindsight, it would have been a lot better to go ahead and get it. Thought I could do without, but you'll need it sooner rather than later, and you'll know pretty precisely what's going on with your tank as it cycles.

I cycled my 6-gallon Eclipse tank fishless using a combination of raw frozen shrimp and pure ammonia. One thing I learned (fortunately by reading, not the hard way such as losing a fish) is that if you use ammonia, *do not get the kind usually sold at grocery stores*! Those usually contain sudsing ingredients -- obviously very toxic to fish. I found pure ammonia at Ace Hardware. Home Depot and other places are also sources, although the Home Depot in my area carried only ammonia with sudsing ingredients. A couple of primitive tests you can use are to first check to make sure the ammonia is clear (not yellow or green) and then shake the unopened bottle. There should be no suds. Before you put ammonia drops into your tank, do an extra double-check to make sure it doesn't smell lovely like some perfumed shampoo. If it passes these tests well and makes you gag, it should be safe to add to your fishless tank, about 1 drop per 2 gallons. Note: That's without fish!

I also concur with Rose and others about not skimping on the heater. The Stealth Visa-therm heaters are great! I have two of them, and it's wonderful how the aquarium temps stay just as you set them no matter the fluctuations in the outside room temp.

One caveat: Rose recommends the Seachem Ammonia Alert. I love this little gizmo. However, it's not 100% dependable. It happily gave me a reading of 0% ammonia when my tank was cycling over the top (8 PPM). I think it's been pretty dependable otherwise. It's a pretty good ammonia alert, but I wouldn't depend on it totally. Go ahead and get an API Master Test Kit.

chickadee

Yes Drs Foster and Smith carry the bloodworms as they are my supplier and the only place I buy them from. Here is the link. They mix them with the other foods that are similar so you missed them. You have to "search" them.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...54&pcatid=3954

I keep the Freeze-dried Bloodworms and Freeze-dried Daphnia on hand all the time and always soak the Bloodworms in VitaChem before feeding them to keep the constipation chances down and give the Daphnia to those fish that are being medicated or in quarantine or if they will not eat their peas as it is a good alternative and contains the fiber that they need.

The only time that I have had an Ammonia Alert fail me was when I forgot to remove the plastic skin over the little pad before I put it in my tank but I suppose it can happen. I have had many times they have shown ammonia of very small levels for me and when I checked it out with my API kit it was right on the money. Since they last a year, it is a small expense in my humble opinion and makes my mind easier. It is really your choice but I do feel better with one in my tanks.

Rose

LuvaBetta

I didn't find the ammonia monitor helpful, only the liquid API test kits worked. Don't use the strip testers, they're not always reliable! The monitor, I found, would turn dark like it should in the presence of ammonia, but didn't go all the way back to light. So it looked like nothing I was doing was getting rid of the ammonia. Frustrating!

As for the larger heater, I've done that and had no trouble. It's also VERY nice not to have to buy another heater if you decide to upgrade tank size. You won't be burying it in the gravel, of course, so the distance shouldn't matter. Plants - both real or plastic - probably should be far enough away that they don't touch the heater when they're moving in the current.

Go ahead and start your cycle, the dechlorinator that came with your stuff will work fine. The cycle goes a bit faster with warmer water; since you don't have your heater yet, you can start it with water that's warmer than you'd give your fish-to-be, even between 90 and 100 degrees.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

luna

Nevermind, I found them...they WERE hidden! Of course, now I feel like an idiot for not finding them before...>_>

Now, another question before I complete my order...should I get any medications in case I bring home a sick fishie, or in case my fishie gets sick? Should I get some of that Daphnia food for the same reason? I figure, if I'm going to order things I will or will potentially need, I might as well only get charged for shipping once, you know?

Thanks for being so patient with all of my questions...I'm just trying really hard to be a good future fish mommy, and there are a LOT of products and information out there for me to try to figure out! You guys are a BIG help!

I have a "bright" idea...since I won't have my heater right away, I could just keep the tank light on to help keep the water warmer, right?

luna

Well, I've got it filled with conditioned water and running with the light on. The temp of the water I put i is at ~90F, which you said was okay for starting to cycle.

I'm surprised at just how quiet the filter is. It's only a few feet away, and I can't even hear it over the computer's fan! There are air bubbles on the inside of the tank on...well...everything from when I added the water. I'm guessing those will go away after a while? I know they form in oxygenated water.

I know it says, when starting to cycle with food, to just add a few flakes every 12 hours...but how many is "a few"? I added a very small pinch, since I don't want to overdo it and have a lot of rotting food in there all at once.

LuvaBetta

Questions are good! I learn more from other people's questions than I ever thought I'd need to know. There's just no such thing as

Don't worry about the rotting food, you can vacuum it out before you add future-fishie, using either a gravel vacuum or a turkey baster.

As for medicines, I'd get some. Just as sure as you don't, he'll get sick and it'll be at a time when everything's closed for two days! I'll defer to the experts, but something like Maracyn Plus and Rid-fungus are two very good medicines to have on hand to handle both bacterial and fungal problems.