antisen

It's been a while since I've posted here, but recently Dory has been doing pretty rough... he's had fin rot on all his fins and seems to be having trouble swimming. I just started him on a course of Triple Sulfa and Rid-Fungus to try to combat it since Fungus Clear wasn't working as well as usual.

Today I was studying the water closer than usual when I suddenly noticed, to my horror, there appears to be THOUSANDS OF TINY WHITE BUGS EVERYWHERE IN HIS TANK. I can't tell if there's any on him or not. I have no idea how long they've been in there because they're tiny and white and until just now I assumed it was just debris/dust floating around... until I saw them CRAWLING on his wall. I am freaking out (if you can't tell). What do I do?? Please help!!

Thanks,
Whitney

0morrokh

Sounds like planaria. They aren't harmful...in fact your betta will probably enjoy eating them. However check to make sure you aren't overfeeding.

antisen

I'm positive I don't overfeed; I feed 2 pellets twice a day and once or twice a week when Dory is sleeping before I get home at night he only gets fed once. I also have no live plants or food that I've ever used in the tank, nor have I added any new fish. So the other weird part, besides not knowing if they're hurting him, is that I can't conceive of where they came from.

They don't look at all like planaria. They are not wormy or slug-like bugs. I attached a little picture of what they seem to look like... it's hard to tell because they are so tiny (the very largest seem are barely a millimeter long and most are even tinier) and no one I know owns a magnifying glass. They are whitish-transparent, egg-shaped with little feeler(s), and crawl on the glass and float around through the water. There don't :appear: to be any on Dory but again they are very tiny and Dory's body is light-colored so it's hard to tell.

I wouldn't be concerned if Dory was happy and healthy, but he's been ill lately and I want to make 100% sure these things aren't to blame for it.

Thanks again,
Whitney

Attached Images

littlebug.JPG (2.1 KB, 142 views)

0morrokh

Sounds like the little critters I always have in one of my tanks (little moving white dots with tails). Probably not a problem. I still haven't figured out what exactly they are.

antisen

That makes me feel better I guess... as long as your fish in that tank aren't mysteriously sick or anything then I guess they're harmless and the fin rot is unrelated. Doesn't mean I have to like them though! Have you found any way of getting rid of them? They kinda gross me out, especially since I stick my hand in there once a week to vacuum the gravel.

chickadee

I had them in one of my tanks and I used Jungle Labs Parasite Clear Tank Buddies and it got rid of them. But you have them in there and eventually they will return and you will have to treat the tank again. I am wondering if Dory brought them with him when he came to you and it has just taken this long for them to mature. I think my tank was infested from an infected fish. You need to treat the tank for sure as they will become a horrid problem and bother Dory something fierce.

Rose

0morrokh

They've never bothered any of my fish. They're just little critters that glide around the tank walls & gravel. As long as I don't overfeed they don't take over or anything. I'm curious if anyone knows what they exactly are?

antisen

I've had Dory for over a year in this tank now and for a while before that in a vase/bowl. Honestly, my school processes its own water and does so very poorly by the look/taste of it, so I wonder if they might actually be from the water supply. It's a gross thought but it's the only thing I can think of.... good thing I drink bottled water I guess. Once this medication is done I'll try parasite clear. Since they don't appear to be attaching to Dory at all I think my biggest worry now is his bad case of fin rot

chickadee

I do not know that they are harmful but when I had them in the tank with Alexander he was bothered by them and would flinch when they landed on him and I was afraid they were biting him or something so they had to go. I am always erring on the side of caution and do not like having problems I am not sure about. I will say that vacuuming alone will never rid your tank of them and eventually the gravel will be full of them. I just wanted them out and that took care of the problem for a while until the second bunch of eggs or whatever hatched and then I had to retreat the tank. Finally they stopped appearing and the fish settled down. It could be that they are harmless but he would Never eat them and like I said all I had to do was see him flinch and I disliked the little buggers.

Rose

LuvaBetta

The taste of it? um, ewww! Why are you tasting his water?

nmwierman1977

You know I have those on the walls of Rj's tank too. When I clean his tank once a week I wipe his walls down to get rid of them, but a few days later they are back. They haven't bothered him any, but now I'm wondering if maybe that whats causing him not to feel so well. They've been showing up on his walls for about 2 months now. he's been kind of sluggish lately, He's seems better this morning, but I've been putting maracyn plus and ridfungus in his tank to treat what ever is wrong with him. His body is looking kind of wierd too. Under his top fin and on his top fin his color is more of a faded color and turning whitish or grayish and the same on his bottom fin and on his body just above it. I guess if this is what's causing him to be this way after I'm done dosing him with the rid fungus and maracyn plus I'll get some parasite clear try that and see if that get's rid of it all together. Can I get that petsmart? I don't want to order anything since we are moving soon. Natalie

janoue

I know this is probally a bad recomindation, but if it were my tank, I would be moving my boy to a hospital tank for a few days, and I would be doing some serious disinfecting and i would throw out the gravel and buy new. and then put him back in with some stuff to help cycle the tank and his filter that hopefully hasn't gotten any eggs etc in it. I know thats probally a little dirastic but these are my Boys!

King_Snuggles

I would do the same as janoue but i have some left over bio-spara so i would get new filters as well. the bio wheel is only a few dollers.

chickadee

The thing about it is I have even bleached a tank and put the fish back in and they return so I believe it is something either carried on or inside the fish. This is why the fish have to be treated and then the tank is going to need to be treated again too to take care of any eggs or anything that are hatching. These are hard to get rid of.

Natalie, if RJ is by chance taking these as food he is probably constipated as he can eat a LOT of them and stuff himself and you would not be noticing. Is he usually an aggressive eater? If so I would nearly guarantee he is doing that and his discoloration is partially due to constipation and digestive problems. Sometimes even the peas will not help if they are allowed to stuff themselves and if he has an unlimited supply of food in the tank right now he is probably doing it. Alexander would not eat them but he was such a picky thing that I had trouble getting him to eat what he was supposed to most times. That does not mean that bettas will not eat them if they are the aggressive eaters that enjoy eating and will eat without being picky. If the females I had had the chance they would have chowed down on them in a minute as they were little and they moved.

Rose

nmwierman1977

Rose,he doesn't eat them and trust me he never get's constipated. He poops pretty normally. I'm not definitely sure if this is whats causing it or not.It was just a thought. I'm trying to figure the whole thing out. He's swims around fine and is still eating, so I'm not even sure if it's something serious or not. I would think that if it was he'd be doing a lot worse now and he's not. Anyway, I don't want to take this thread away from Antison I just was tossing it around in my head cuz I'm still trying to figure out why he's like this. It all happened so sudden with his color fading. Anyway, sorry Antison, didn't mean to take it over. Natalie

antisen

Well Dory's water comes from the tap just like the water I brush my teeth with, except Dory's is treated for chemicals so he's probably better off than me :P Have to say I've never tasted the water out of his tank though, which is an accomplishment since I siphon the old fashioned way

As for the bugs, I think I'll follow Rose's suggestion with the Parasite Clear for now, and if it doesn't clear up I'll take the 100% water/gravel/filter change route as troublesome as it may be. Hopefully it'll just clear up with the meds though. Natalie, we may be having the same problem because Dory is unusually sluggish as well and is losing some of his coloration, but swims and eats just fine when he chooses to. Leads me to believe it is those little bugs' fault

chickadee

Even if they are not eating them. It could be something the bugs are doing like biting or causing some type of parasitic problems of some sort. It could also be that these bettas are the carriers of the bugs in the first place and need to be treated. I know they come from somewhere and it may be that they just have to reach a certain point to be noticable. Now I know that they came from a betta in my tank and he had to be treated and the Parasite Clear is what did it but the tank had to be treated twice. Once to get rid of the adults and then the tank had to be treated again when the eggs or whatever from those adults hatched and they started to show up again. So be prepared for a repeated treatment. After the second treatment I have never seen them again but catch them right away on the notice of the second bunch before they can lay any more eggs.

Rose

antisen

Thanks for the advice Rose. Hopefully Dory will start feeling better. Neither Jungle Fungus Clear nor Triple Sulfa / Rid Fungus helped his fin rot or lethargy at all, so maybe this will fix it. I'm posting a pic in case anyone has any other ideas on how to make my poor Dory feel better. It is rather back-lit though because my light is burnt out.

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chickadee

No not Jungle Labs Fungus Clear tank Buddies but Parasite Clear Tank Buddies. These are Parasites and that is what we are treating here. They are two different meds and the Parasite Clear will kill the buggies that you are referring to and help get rid of them. You will notice a decrease in them and have to vacuum the tank to help get rid of them also. Then when the tank Buddies have worked you will have a period of time when they seem to have gone and you will think they are gone but retreat the tank anyway as the eggs will hatch and the new crop will attack and they will come back if you don't stay right on it.

The PARASITE CLEAR TANK BUDDIES will work to rid your tank of them if you use them.

Rose

LuvaBetta

I'd still love to know what they are.

finmama

I hope your boy feels better...he looks so sad in that pic

I noticed something like this in my 5 gallon recently...It looked like their were a couple smudges on the outside of the tank so I went to wipe it off and realized it was on the inside and then I saw them moving. So I scrubbed all the walls of my tank, did a 70% wc and rinsed filter. Also added a bit of salt and raised the temp. By the next day they were starting to stick to the glass a bit again and I scrubbed them off. Didnt see any on the glass the next day but did a small water change. They havnt come back...there may be a tiny bit floating around but hopefully ive got them under control.

finmama

fish fleas lol

chickadee

I think I will ask Dino to wade in on this thread. He may have an answer for us. He has done a lot more studying on the actual physiology of fish than I have and is great at this type of stuff.

Rose

Dino

Nothing comes to mind off the top of my head.

I will check a couple of the parasitology books here and see what I can come up with.

I would agree with the more frequent water changes/less feeding line of thought as to one way to keep these small animals numbers down.

antisen

Well the Parasite Clear seemed to get rid of them as I no longer see them floating around/sticking to the glass, but Dory's disposition has not improved He is still lethargic, his fin rot has not improved, and his appetite isn't very good. Does anyone have any suggestions? I am getting really worried.

chickadee

What is he eating when he does eat? And how much? What are your parameters and water temperature? If you are below 80 degrees try raising the temperature a bit. MartyJr. was being kind of lethargic for a few days and I noticed his temp was down to 78 and when I boosted it to 80 he is doing some better. Just a suggestion.
Is he bloated or thin looking? How do his scales look? How is his coloring? Has he had any peas lately? Whether he is eating or not he could still have digestive problems and needs to have fiber in his diet. Have you been spending much time talking to him lately? (not a silly question, bettas can and do pout when they feel they are not getting their share of the attention.) I am not making accusations, I really am just trying to gather information so I can try to help. I know that you are a caring and good betta parent but I need to know some of this stuff.
I am so sorry he is not feeling better, I really do worry about each and every sick betta on this board. It makes me feel very bad that they do not feel well. So I do hope that we can find some way to help him. Please do let me know as much of the information as you can and we will work to see if we can find some way to get him going and back to normal again.

Rose

antisen

Lots information! First, Dory's eating habits. He has always loved eating and loved his Hikari Bio-Gold pellets and used to eat two pellets twice a day. Now he will eat one in the morning and refuse to eat any more, so I'll drop a flake of HBH Betta ColorBright in there too which he, strangely, seems to like more than the pellets. Now he is to the point where he will only eat one of these as well. He will not eat at night as he falls asleep very early, around 6pm, and basically doesn't acknowledge me again until morning. This seems like not nearly enough food to me. Oh, and he's never liked freeze-dried bloodworms, I have those too but don't even bother with them anymore.

Temperature: His thermometer reads 81 degrees, but when I take the thermometer out of the water it reads about 3 degrees higher than my thermostat. So there's a possibility my thermometer is inaccurate. This is off on a tangent, but I went to PetSmart to buy a new one, and what do you know, EVERY thermometer they had in the store was broken (red liquid spilled all over the inside). So I still don't know the accurate temperature of my tank.

Parameters I am also working on. His tank is cycled and I've been doing weekly or every other week 25% water changes (more with all the meds lately) but I can't find the instructions/color guides to my nitrate and nitrite tests! So all I know right now is ammonia: 0. Actually if anyone has a scan of the Nitrite & Nitrate instructions and color guide (all I can find is the saltwater) it would be really helpful as these little test kits are expensive and I have plenty of fluid left. I use the ones by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc.

He doesn't look noticeably bloated or thin but he is paler than usual. His scales look normal. He hasn't had any peas too recently, but he does not seem constipated. I posted a picture of him earlier in the thread so you can see what his fins look like. He is able to swim okay when he wants to, he just rarely seems to want to.

I haven't been spending very much time with him lately unfortunately because my school work load has been pretty nuts this semester. When I am around though, he doesn't show nearly as much interest in me and what I'm doing as he used to. His favorite pastimes were always eating, watching me on my computer, and listening to music, but now he just sleeps a lot and floats around listlessly. Someone suggested to me that he could be reaching old age, but I've had him for less than two years so I don't have any reason to think that's the case.

Any additional info I can think of: his tank hasn't been lit for a while now because 1. he flares at his reflection endlessly and 2. those little bugs seemed to like light. For the fin rot I have so far attempted to treat it with Jungle Fungus Clear Tank Buddies, and a Triple Sulfa / Rid-Fungus combo. This was before I used the Parasite Clear. He gets fin rot fairly regularly but the Fungus Clear Tank Buddies usually knock it out. His fin rot has remained essentially the same for a few weeks now, not getting noticeably worse but not healing at all. It is on every single one of his fins, and one of his pelvic/ventral fins is essentially a stump now (the bright green dot in the photo posted earlier shows where that fin ends). Usually when he gets fin rot it heals almost immediately after treatment, so this is unusual for him.

Thank you so much for the help! Let me know if theres any more information I can give you.

chickadee

Okay for starters, let's start with the temp. I read a really good article in Tropical Fish Magazine about Bettas and the affect of temperature on their lifespan. They seem to do okay at 78 to 80 degrees but above that actually it speeds up their living and actually shortens their lives. So if he is at 81 and the thermometer is showing that there is the possibility that it may be higher yet you may have a betta who is fast growing old. This is hinted at by the fact that you say that he looks paler than before. This would account for SOME of the lethargy and listlessness and inability to show interest in previous activities. Try to LOWER the temperature a degree or two slowly and see if this helps at all. If you see any change you will know that maybe it has something to do with his actions. If he is literally being warmed to death then maybe this is going to help but not totally stop the problem. He is two years old and that is getting up there for a betta too. Actually three is a ripe old age for most bettas. He will eat what he wants and needs so as long as he does not seem to be not eating at all, just let him be with what he wants. Bettas can actually go totally without food for several days with no harm to them. (I do not like to see it go beyond 5 or 6 without some sort of intervention, medication, etc.) If you do not think he is constipated and he is not distended or swollen in the midsection then he is probably just doing what he wants to do. I really encourage you to try very hard to find a tank thermometer that is going to keep an accurate check on the temp and keep the temp at 78 to 80 degrees and see if he responds. Otherwise the only other thing I can suggest would be Vitamins in the form of perhaps something like VitaChem or another good fish Vitamin. If you need help to find one let me know. I know someone mentioned a product called Sera Fishtamin but I do not think it is available in the States. The only one I have ever used is VitaChem. Garlic Juice is an appetite stimulant for fish but he is eating enough technically so I would hesitate to do anything unless he actually quits eating. If he quits eating get some Minced Garlic at the grocery store in the jar. Not the dried kind, the kind that comes packed in its own juice. If you cannot find it, ask a clerk. They will know where it is. Just soak the pellet in a bit of the juice and it is like a tonic for the fish. I have never seen a fish who does not like the stuff. Do not ask me why!
Please, please, please do try to find time every day if only for a few minutes to talk to him and make him feel special. He may be a bit depressed. Yes, bettas can and do get depressed and it can be serious. Sometimes that is all that is wrong with them, but in this case, I am betting that the temperature is partially it too. He has also had a mountain of meds in the last while and needs a good detoxing so no more meds of any kind for a while as he is not in any shape to handle them for a bit. The finrot will just have to do with the clean water and possible Vitamin treatment. (If you can get them) He needs to just be a betta for a bit and see if he will snap out of this and be his old self. We need to give him just plain water and food and as close to perfect temperature as possible and see if he will be a normal fellow for his parent again.

You are a loving and caring parent and you and he will be in this together. He loves you and trusts you and is still doing okay so I have confidence that this can be turned about. It is going to take some time and patience with him and trial with the temperature though.

Please keep me informed of his progress. I really do care what is going on with the two of you.

Rose

antisen

I think I phrased the thermometer problem wrong in my other post; it's reading 81 degrees but I think the real temperature is three degrees lower than that, not higher. So the real temperature is probably around 78-79 by my reckoning. I should be able to pick up a new thermometer over the weekend to know for sure.

I do have Vita-chem and Fish Protector, I sorta forgot about them but I added some today. How often/much should I dose in a case like this, just as much as it says on the bottle? I doubt I'll have much luck with him eating food soaked in it though

I tried soaking his food in garlic earlier (a powdered garlic & water mixture) with no luck. Maybe the minced garlic juice will work better? I'll buy some next time I go shopping just in case his problem gets any worse.

COBettaCouple

I'd do a drop per gallon daily on the VitaChem and the recommended dose for his tank daily on the Fish Protector.