ethogan

I need some advice.

We have a Betta, who is nearly three years old. We've had him in an old fashioned goldfish bowl in the kitchen, and despite our ignorance, he has survived and seems to be healthy.

We've now purchased a 10 gallon aquarium with all the accoutrement, heater, filter etc, and are waiting for the tank to come into balance.

So the question is this. His tank is currently at 68 degrees, and yes I now know that's too cold. I'd like to move him to the new tank once it's ready, but i am concerned about the shock going from 68 to 78.

I'd love some advice on how best to achieve this.

susitna-flower

WELCOME to FISHLORE, Ethogan. You will find lots of Betta buddies here.....

My suggestion would be to cycle your tank (fishless cycle) as described in the link at the top of this page for the nitrogen cycle.
Once your ammonia and nitrite readings go up, and then drop back to 0 and your nitrates go up to between 5-10. Do a 50% water change and start acclimating your betta. Try to have the temp in your tank between 68 and 72 F to start....Don't have the heater set all the way up....At the time you start the following process you can turn the temp on the heater up to 78, it'll take several hours for it to bring the temp up, and at the same time your buddy will be getting used to it by the following.......

I would place your betta in a VERY CLEAN , no soap, plastic container in water from his current bowl, about half full, or what ever will float upright in the tank. Then place 1/4 cup at a time of the new tank water in with the betta. Do this every 15 minutes and after a couple of hours you can pour the fish and water in the new tank. It should all go smoothly if you do this..

Good Luck, and post often to let us know how it goes.

Blub

chickadee

When we receive the fish through the mail, they are always cool and the way I acclimate them is to take the plastic bag they are in with the water from their old home in it and leave it sealed with about half air and half water in the bag and float the whole thing in the tank for about 2 hours to allow it to slowly acclimate to the same temperature. So..

If he is at 68 put him and some of his tank water in a brand new Zip-loc baggie and fill it about half full with water from the old tank and put him in it and seal it loosely with air still in it. It does not have to be inflated but needs some air.

Have the new tank at about 74 and float the bag for at least 2 hours to bring the temperature in the bag up to the 74 in the tank. Then net him and remove him from the old water and put him in the tank and remove the baggie with the old water and discard it. Then slowly raise the tank temperature (about a degree every 2 hours) until it reaches the 78 to 80 degree range that you want to keep him at.

I want to congratulate you on keeping your friend for the 3 years. It is a testament to the care you have given him that he has survived in an unheated and uncycled environment this long. You must love him very much. That is so nice and you should be proud of this accomplishment.
I would also like to know if you have a name for him as we do like to address our bettas by name here as they have definite personalities and are the reason for this Section in the first place. Welcome to the Betta Section and I hope the information you have gotten here will be helpful.

Rose

ethogan

Thanks to all for your help and advice.

Our Bettas name is Top Fin.

ricktavious

Welcome to Fish Lore! I too at first was "in the dark" for betta care at first, but once I started getting heated/filtered tanks I have seen a huge difference in betta behavior and am officially hooked Hopefully the same happens for you.

ethogan

So I followed your advice and read about the Nitrogen Cycle, but I have a problem.

I visited a local aquarium store in search of a water test. I was told that the only way to cycle a tank was with fish (contrary to everything that I've now read here)So I came home with 4 fish 2 Mollies and 2 Swordtails. The've been in the tank foor just under 24 hours now and appear healthy. They're active and have good apetites.

So, now that I've taken the wrong fork in the road, what can i best do to manage it from here on?

antisen

Those fish aren't likely to get along with your betta, so even if they manage to successfully cycle your tank without getting sick in the process you won't be able to add your betta to the tank. I don't know much about whether pet stores take fish back or not, but that might be an option. If you like your new fish though, you might want to consider buying another tank. I'm sorry the people at the aquarium store misinformed you!

chickadee

Oh my, I am so sorry that you were duped by untrained or unscrupulous fish store people. They should know better. The methods that are listed in the article have worked very well for our members and I have personally used the one that calls for using ammonia. I use Bio-spira now to cycle my tanks as it provides an instant cycle and you do not have all the constant testing and waiting for the fish to have a home, but it is a pricey route. $14.99 plus the $19.99 shipping fee as it has to be shipped in a cooler and overnight FedEx. It has to be refrigerated constantly to maintain its effectiveness.

It is true that those fish will not work with Top Fin. They are too aggressive for him or he will bother them. The list of compatible fish for a betta is short and most of them are more touchy about water quality and could not be used to to cycle a tank.

Now that you are committed to the route you are, the only thing to do is go through it. (the nice thing for the store to have done would have been to have given you a piece of one of their filters or some of the gravel from one of their established tanks that contained established bacteria.) This is going to take some time as doing it with fish cannot be hurried. Set the temperature of your tank at 78 degrees (the bacteria will not form if it is too cool) and feed your fish twice a day and test for ammonia one time a day and when it gets above 0.5 on the scale you will have to do a partial water change to keep it below 0.25. You do not want to bring it to 0 all the time or the bacteria will never form as they need the ammonia to eat. This will mean changing out about a third of your water maybe every other day. After a week start checking for NITRITES as well as Ammonia every day and keep them below 1.0 with water changes like you do with the ammonia. So after the Nitrites start to form you want your readings to be Ammonia 0.25 to 0.5 and Nitrite 0.25 to 1.0 every day. Then in another week you begin to test for the 3 biggies: Ammonia, Nitrites, and NITRATES. When you start to see Nitrates forming you know the cycle is progressing. Then you need to watch for the ultimate goal of: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, and Nitrate under 20. When you see that when you do your test for the day (before any water changes) your tank is cycled. Until then you just keep the levels at the same: Ammonia 0.25-0.5; Nitrites 0.25-1.0; and Nitrates 0-20 If any of the readings are higher than this it means it is time to change the 1/3 of the water again.

I hope I made sense and if you have questions by all means please ask them.
This process can take 4 to 6 weeks so do not get discouraged if things seem slow. It will happen and patience is the name of the game at this point. The only other route at this point is to return the fish and order the Bio-spira.

Rose

COBettaCouple

Welcome to Fishlore!

Rose has given you good advice to make up for the bad advice the store gave you. Great job on taking care of your Betta!

ethogan

Could I put these four new fish in a bag, treat the tank with Biro-spira, and start over?

pamd

At least some stores let people return fish. I was at Petland and a woman was returning a fish that she had apparently had for a while because it had gotten too big for her tank. A couple of employees were trying to figure out where to quarantine it. I don't know if they gave her a refund or not, but that certainly didn't matter more than the fish hopefully finding another home. I wonder if some stores let people return fish and just plunk them into the nearest populated tank? I wouldn't put it past 'em.

Good luck with your cycling, ethogan, and with whatever you decide to do with the mollies and swordtails!

MissMTS

Most chain stores have a 14 day gaurantee on their fish. I know that most LFS's give store credit. You could take them back to the store and then add biospira to your tank and it would work fine. You can order it online from Dr. Fosters and Smith. Unfortunately store employees push the idea of cycling a tank with fish just so that they can make a sale. It's too bad that a lot of people get misinformed from the. I'm sorry they confused you. I have learned to trust the advice given to me on this forum way more than any fish store employee. Welcome!

chickadee

You do not HAVE to remove the fish to use the Bio-spira. In fact it is supposed to be used with fish in the tank. Most people shake the pouch and open it and dump it in the tank and add fish about that fast. The Bio-spira NEEDS fish in the tank to work or it will have no source for the live bacteria that are already in the pouch to feed off the ammonia produced by the fish. The only reason it takes 7 days before you can do a water change or much testing is that it does a fast cycle and will drive you crazy because it is going to say there is ammonia in the tank and you will worry so if you use it here are the ground rules.

1 be sure to SHAKE the pouch before you open it and use it all don't try to save some. I know it says it will do 30 gallons but I have never had luck trying to keep it over and it is too hard to do a dosing on it. Unless you have 2 tanks that are under 30 gallons total then you can split the one pouch between them but otherwise just use the whole pouch. (you could get another tank for the betta and keep the other fish in the tank you have now and use 1 pouch for the two of them if they are under 30 gallons total)

2 do not buy it from anyone who does not have it under refrigeration or let anyone tell you that any other product that is not Bio-spira is just as good. It is the only one that I am aware of that is available at the present time that will give this type of cycle. Store owners who do not carry it are notorious for this and you are already the victim of one unscrupulous dealer.

3 Put the fish in the tank immediately after you add the Bio-spira if they are not already there. Otherwise the Bio-spira will die and you will have lost the money you paid for it.

4 do not TEST the water or CHANGE the water no matter what for the first 7 days. It is not necessary to test as you know that the Bio-spira is working and it is not a good idea to change the water as you will be throwing away your Bio-spira before it can get a good hold on your tank.

On day 8 change the water like usual after you test for ammonia, nitrite , and nitrate to see and make sure the cycle completed itself. I have never had one fail. It beats all the water changes and all the testing and all the time and Top Fin will be in a tank all the sooner, but he cannot still be in the tank with that particular variety of fish. If you do not want to get him another tank then you have two choices:

Keep the fish you bought and leave Top Fin where he is in the small tank

Take the fish back and give the big tank to Top Fin

The third alternative is to set up another tank of at least a respectable size and let Top Fin have it and keep the other fish where they are in the tank where you have them and use a pouch of Bio-spira on the two tanks (split the pouch) It would be 1 tablespoon per tank.

Hope that helps. Please do keep us up to date on the happenings as we are interested and want to help if we can.

Rose

heatmisr

Just to add on to this. In my quest to find Bio-spira, I went to a LFS that was supposed to carry it. They did not carry the Bio-spira, but they did have Turbostart 700. It works the same as the Bio-spira. I have used it twice to cycle my tank and it completes the cycle in exactly 7 days. The smallest size they had was 4oz, which treats 150 gallons and is way too much, but it only cost $19.99. It's only good for 3 months and must be refrigerated, so make sure you check the expiration date. I just use about a capful and it works fine. Just another option.

chickadee

I had never heard of this product but since you have tried it twice and it worked both times in 7 days (just like the Bio-spira?) then I guess it would be okay with the one question.

Did you do water changes and testing during the 7 days or was it considered an "instant cycle" as well?

I would want to know that the levels of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were staying within the same limits as with Bio-spira before I trusted it without testing.

One more point in case anyone decides to use Bio-spira for the first time. It cannot be added when you need to medicate your fish. If you get fish and feel the need to medicate you will just have to do a 50% water change every time the ammonia levels go up and save the Bio-spira for after you have removed the medication from the tank. Otherwise wait to medicate any problems until after the 8th day. (I usually medicate first if there is a problem and THEN cycle my tank)

Rose

heatmisr

Yes, it works exactly like the bio-spira. No, no water changes. It is an "instant cycle" just like the bio-spira.

The first time I used it (that was how I finally got the tank cycled for LB) the tank was cloudy for the first 6 days. On the 7th, it cleared instantly. When I tested the water I had 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10 nitrates.

This time I used a bottle that I had for about 5 months. (bought the turbostart but never got the fish) (That reminds me that I need to introduce Remmington to the forum...) I used a little extra since it was 2 months past the expiration. The tank got slightly cloudy. On day 7, it cleared. I tested the water and I had 0.5 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 10 nitrates. Did a 20% water change. When I tested the water the next day, it was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and ~ 10 nitrates.

Here is the link to the company's website if you would like a little more info

http://www.fritzpet.com/turbo700_main.html