LuvaBetta

I am a total newbie, and have done everything wrong at the worst possible time! I fell in love with bettas through someone at work who kept her fishie in a vase with no heater, no plants, no filter, no decorations, and infrequent water changes. I felt really sorry for him and vowed to do better with mine. So now - who'd a guessed? Hers is fine and mine is really, really sick. I put him in a 2.5 gallon tank and everything was okay - then the algae began to grow. Not too bad, but my sis-in-law dropped an algae eater in there, a small otocinclus catfish, and a small filter. Again, not too bad, but the cat wasn't eating any algae and I read that they really like the company of their own kind. So I added two more small catfishies. This is where things began to slide. I did frequent water changes before the cats and the filter, maybe too frequently? betta didn't like it. So I rethought that one. Then the algae was gone, but the ammonia spiked alarmingly. I did a full water change, and in a week, it had spiked again. Now my betta is in a quarantine bowl and doesn't look like he cares whether or not he makes it. I'm pretty sure its ammonia poisoning but don't know how to cycle the tank with these fish in it, how I should help my betta. Without slapping me any harder than I have myself, does anyone have any suggestions? Aquarisol? Salt? Any other medications?

sirdarksol

I would suggest no salt. Instead, go with something that de-toxifies ammonia, like AmQuel, and maybe load some resin chips into your filter media bag. Do water changes, but keep them partial (50% as often as is necessary to keep the ammonia down).
If you have a friend you can get some used (still wet) filter media from, do so.
Another (more expensive) option is to find a store that carries BioSpira. This is a concentrated dose of the nitrifying bacteria. It's the only brand that actually works, the other stuff helps for awhile, but makes things worse in the end (that's my opinion, at least) It instantly cycles the tank. As I said, expensive, but it saves your fish a rollercoaster ride.
What seems to be going on is that your tank is going through the nitrification cycle. http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm
This is a description of the infamous Cycle. Read up on it and come back with a listing of your tank's Ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite readings.

Don't be feeling bad about having issues (or at least too bad). Most of us are here for the exact same reason you are. I had a guorami die due to ammonia poisoning because I didn't know what I was doing. Your friend is lucky. The fish, not so much. Fish can become used to large quantities of toxins, to an extant. They survive in these conditions, but they don't thrive. They become stunted, and their lives are shorter. They exist in a constant state of stress, meaning they are far more likely to get sick. Better to do the work of setting up a healthy tank.

Good luck, and let us know if you have any other questions.

ricktavious

Sorry about your betta

I have 2 five gallon tanks. Both of those, I have cycled with betta fish in them. I used Prime water conditioner while cycling one of them, Prime and AmQuel Plus with the other. Neither fish developed ammonia poisoning (but, unfortunately, one of them died recently in a non-ammonia related death). Best of luck setting your tank up!

EDIT: During the cycling, I did a small water change several times a week. Maybe 20% four times a week is what I was doing.

chickadee

My first betta did the cycle himself with no help from much of anything since I was new to fish and did not even know about cycling the tank but we got through it with lots of water changes. (50% water changes at least every other day) This was in a 5 gallon tank. If the tank is smaller than that the water changes need to be done more frequently. This is pretty much the case no matter what water conditioner you use. The ONLY way to protect them from the ammonia in a positive manner is to do the water changes. You do not want to have it at 0 all the time though, even though this is what would be the absolute best for your fish. Unfortunately, if it is at 0 constantly, your tank will not cycle as there will be nothing for the bacteria to feed on and grow. It is definitely preferable to keep it in the 0.25 levels though and never more than 0.5. Your betta can survive this but I will say that bettas who cycle their own tanks are usually never as healthy as they would be when the tanks are cycled fishless and prepared for them ahead of time.

Rose

COBettaCouple

sounds like you've gotten good advice. Bettas can be amazingly resiliant, so we really hope yours bounces back quickly.

LuvaBetta

My betta Tai died yesterday, it's really a shame he had to pay for my inexperience. I'll try all the great suggestions to get my tank cycled and healthy, and maybe get another betta in a month or so. Thanks for all the ideas!

COBettaCouple

we're sorry you lost Tai.. we lost our first betta before we found how great a place Fishlore is for advice and help. you did the best you could with him and have found a great place to learn how to give your next Betta the best of care.

chickadee

Yes, you must remember that you did the best you could. You know better now and can do it different the next time but this time you did what you really felt was the best and most humane thing you could do and you also came to get help which is more than a lot of people do.

You should realize that there are not many of us, myself included who have not had to go through the trial-and-error method at least one time with our fish and usually way more than that. I have lost fish because of my not knowing how to help them as have many others here. Do not beat yourself up over it, and when you feel that you can get another betta in the cycled tank remember that he was given love and that much he thanks you for.

If you need help to get the cycle process done fishlessly, the instructions are in the following article:

http://www.fishlore.com/NitrogenCycle.htm

The only other way to do it instantly is to purchase Bio-spira, a product that not many fish stores carry and has to be refrigerated. It contains the live bacteria needed to cycle a tank and cycles the tank pretty much instantly. It is safe to put the fish into the tank immediately after adding the product. It is expensive mainly due to the shipping if you cannot find it locally, but a lot of us use it because it is safe and it saves weeks of time. If you decide to look for it, please do not allow unscrupulous vendors to sell you something else and tell you it is "just as good" there is no such product.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1 (postage on this product is $19.95 and it is sent OVERNIGHT FEDEX in a Styrofoam cooler and you need to be sure to order the freshwater product)


Rose

TSCAD

I've had a few tanks and my most recent is about one year old. A couple of weeks ago my canister filter decided to stop working so I bought a new one. For some reason it slipped my mind swap the media and I realized it after I trashed the thing. I woke up a couple days latter and the entire tank was white. I checked the water and my ammonia was well over 10 PPM. I couldn't believe a fish was even alive. I did two 50% water changes over 2 days and nothing. I read about bio-spira and thought I might give it a try. I called all over and no one had the stuff. I finally contacted a gentleman who recommended SuperBac. He said it was better than bio-spira. I threw in a few bottles (it made the water purple) and in 48 hours my ammonia was down to .50 ppm. In a week I was back at 0 ppm and all 20 fish are happy as can be. Not a one lost. Just thought I would share my story. I hope that someone else can benefit from my mistake.

Barbrella

For 2.5 gal tanks, I think the safest thing to do is have ONE betta in it with a heater and NO filter, and do 100% water change every week. That way there are no worries about ammonia poisoning, water testing etc. A tank that size isn't difficult to totally clean every week.

Put something like Prime in when you do the water change.

chickadee

I cannot agree to having a betta in a tank with no filter and doing 100% water changes on a continuing basis as the stress on the fish is simply too great to keep removing the fish from the tank. Every time you net your betta you are taking a chance at injuring him because bettas have a real dislike of being netted and their fins are easily damaged in the process. Plus the properly cycled tanks are always preferable to a tank without a filter because then you do not not have to worry about ammonia build up as there is simply none to deal with. The bacterial bed is taking care of the ammonia for you. This is always the healthiest for the fish. You can keep the tank without gravel to make it easier to clean or as maintenance free as possible although the gravel is one place the bacteria grows and becomes established, but you do need a filter of some type even in a tank of that size. They can be small and simple or a more complex and larger one in the lid of the tank but there should be some sort of filter.

My first choice for a tank this size would be this filter as it contains all the elements of biological, mechanical, and chemical filtration and also allows you to totally adjust the flow both in strength and direction in the tank. It also has a nozzle to add aeration so you do not need a seperate airpump and airstone as it also adds air to the water to keep the water oxygenated. So this takes the place of the airpump, airstone, and filter all in one.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...32&pcatid=3632 (the Duetto Mini Model - I have used them often and have had good luck with them every time) They are easy to clean and they are easy to use with medications as the carbon cartridge comes out easily and then can be replaced easily with new carbon to remove any medication. The filter media is sponge so can be rinsed in used tank water and reused many times before new media is needed.

Rose

Barbrella

I don't net my bettas. I put a cup into their tanks and let them just gently enter it. They're not stressed at all.

I am interested in that tiny filter of Dr.Foster &Smith and will look into that.

Thanks for the link.

COBettaCouple

all of our 2.5g tanks have filters and heaters and have been doing great. 25% water changes weekly along with weekly cleaning and those bettas are very happy.

sirdarksol

I'm going to have to agree with Chickadee here. It doesn't take very long for ammonia to start building up in a tank, especially a small one like a 2.5. So over the week, you're building ammonia up, and then taking it all away. Even though it's a switch to a better quality water, this sudden change is stressful to fish, as it's a shock to their system. This is the source of the old myth from the '80s that old tank water was better for fish than new tank water. Fish were dying after water changes because their bodies had become somewhat used to the extremely polluted water they were swimming in, and then crashed as the water quality changed instantly.

LuvaBetta

Wow! I hadn't even CONSIDERED that CLEAN water could be a source of stress! I do pwc's frequently, though, and the water is filtered and heated so I hope that won't ever be the issue. It does bother me that I can't get the 5g to cycle. It's been three weeks, with Bio-Spira, and there's still plenty of ammonia, no nitrites and no nitrates. I won't put a betta in there until it cycles, so I can't move my girls and get the smaller tank cycled.

sirdarksol

As long as you're doing regular water changes, it shouldn't be an issue.

Bio-Spira should have cycled the tank within a day. We've had other members who have had tanks that just would not cycle.

LuvaBetta

It definitely should have cycled quickly. The bacteria might have been dead for some reason, I'm thinking. I got it at our LFS and they're pretty knowledgeable. It was refrigerated properly and I poured it directly onto the bio-wheel, even stopping it's movement for a short time so it wouldn't dump into the tank immediately. Ah well, it's back to the old standby - time.

chickadee

Whoa! Did you say that you would not move your fish into the tank until it cycles and that the Bio-spira has been in there for weeks? The thing with Bio-spira is that you shake the pouch up good and dump it into the TANK not on the Bio-wheel and then IMMEDIATELY put the fish in the tank or else the Bio-spira dies for lack of fish. Using store bought ammonia does not work with this product and no fish/no cycle with the Bio-spira. You will have an ammonia spike and nitrites and nitrates during the first 7 days even though the fish are safe and will not be hurt by it at the levels that it occurs. In ANY cycle there has to be some ammonia and nitrite formation for the bacteria to grow and flourish but Bio-spira does it in such a manner as to not be dangerous to the fish. I have cycled MANY tanks with it and it works but only if you follow those instructions to the letter. This is why it is not suggested that you perform ANY water changes and do not go crazy with the water tests for the first 7 days as the results are not due to anything but the formation of the bacterial bed. If you keep doing water changes all you do is prolong the process. Ammonia should not go back to 0 until day 6 or 7 and then you will be totally cycled and ready for a tank of fish.

If I misunderstood, I do apologize for the sermon, but this is why most of the failures in the Bio-spira cycle happen.

Rose

LuvaBetta

Don't apologize, I need all the insights I can get! The tank was set up for about a week. Then, being an impatient person, I got the Bio-Spira, shaking the pouch well and dumping it onto the bio wheel, which then dumped into the tank (after a few minutes to let it "stew"). I added it there because I kept reading that there's a miniscule amount of the bacteria in the tank itself, that it lives on the bio-wheel. I added two small otos for the natural ammonia and because I didn't have another place for them. I figured they'd be okay because they tolerated the "new tank" problem that killed Tai, my betta. (Tolerated? They almost certainly caused it!) The ammonia level went up, up, up, then afraid for the otos, I had to do a water change. Everything went okay, I tested again (yeah, 'way too often!). Gradually, the same thing happened again. I mean, the color in the test tube was dark blue. Lots of ammonia. Another water change - about three days ago now. I have my fingers crossed that the bacteria may be waking up now, the ammonia level appears to be zero and the nitrite/nitrates don't even turn the test strip pink. I even fed a bit of algae wafer to the otos to make them fat and poopy and the ammonia didn't rise. I'm beginning to feel cautiously optimistic that I may be able to get another betta!!!!!