Phloxface

I'm starting to wonder if finrot IS curable! : Rocky was doing so well. He had about half an inch of nice regrowth and a couple of hours ago, it all fell off! It didn't even look infected or rotten this morning. It just fell off. He has only the ribs of regrowth left, the webbing is all gone. I am positive he hasn't torn it off himself. He couldn't eat all the webbing and not the ribs. Now I'm back to medicating him again. I've removed everything in his tank including the pebbles so I can keep him as clean as possible. I rinsed out the whole bowl and he is in 100% fresh water with Prime, vitamins and Triple Sulfa.

sirdarksol

It's possible that finrot sticks in the body, perhaps in spore form, until medication is done with. I don't know, though, I'm just guessing. It could also be that the finrot bacteria is in pretty much all water, and that there's a virus that weakens the body and opens the way for finrot. Some viruses, such as the herpes virus that causes chickenpox, never leave the body, they just go dormant. Again, just a guess.

mlinden84

I'm going through the same thing with one of my bettas, Strawberry. I will medicate him and it will get better, then suddenly it will be worse that it was before. I've been doing water changes every other day, treating with triple sulfa, use vitachem and prime too.... I haven't taken the gravel out yet (large natural pebbles) or the large fake sword plant as he likes to sleep on it. It would be interesting if there was a common thing we are both doing that is making the finrot come back time and time again....

Phloxface

There was a lot of dirt in between my large pebbles even though I used the gravel vac every second day. I was shocked at how much had fallen deep down in between that wasn't reachable with the vac!
Maybe you should try removing all the substrate and giving the tank a full scrubbing and start again with 100% fresh water. You can leave the plant in if it will stay down without gravel or get a silk plant with one of those stone bottoms that sinks automatically.
I'm going to do larger water changes every second day and full water change at least once a week. I'm still convinced that hidden dirt on the floor of the tank is a major contributor to finrot and large substrate like big pebbles and marbles are the worst offenders. I've had no problems with the smaller polished river stones I have in the other tanks. Dirt stays on top and is easily vacummed up. Rocky's bowl is the only one I have used the large pebbles in and he is the only one to get finrot.
I've put his live java fern back in and a small Buddha statue to hold the plant down just so he will feel less exposed. Other than that there is nothing on the bottom of the bowl. He has his heater, thermometer and airstone in there as well. All were cleaned and sanitized.

Lava Jr is living in a large 3 gallon vase with no substrate at all, only a live java fern, heater, thermometer and airstone. In spite of being a crowntail (they are so prone to finrot) he has had no problems. I can clearly see the dirt on the bottom and vacuum it up completely every second day when I do his water change. I think it makes a big difference.

mlinden84

Hmmm.... something to consider. He was just moved into the 5 gallon mini bow tank this week. I added a thin (you can see the bottom, so less than 1 pebble layer thick) but you may be right. When I do a water change tomorrow I will remove it and see how it goes. His plant is plastic but has a weighted base so that should be ok. I have a brand new biowheel mini filter in there, but I added the biowheel from my other biowheel mini filter (which was on a tank with a betta that is fine, the biowheel has never been in a tank with finrot). But could the biowheel have anything to do with it? I can take it off easily if it is. But then would I have a problem with the bacteria not having any place to "live"?

How are you treating him with the triple sulfa? (how often?)

Hope your little buddy gets better soon!!

Phloxface

I don't think finrot is contagious so the biowheel should be fine.

I just follow the directions on the box for the Triple Sulfa, one dose each day for 2 days then a 25% water change and another 2 doses (one each day). That is one full course of meds. I just do about 3 courses of meds (with water changes in between).
It depends on the brand of Triple Sulfa you use. Each one is different. Just dose exactly as the directions tell you.

Tazmiche

i'm a new Betta owner (Phlox was a star when i was losing my first betta a few months back! and has guided me well since)

Just a thought but do we try too hard with them? do we spend alot on meds that will cause other problems? ?

For me everytime it is their eyes, look into them and you are hooked.

Could a tatty tail be our split ends ( RE HAIR) and do we over react to the slightest change and make things worse.

I as many know am very bad at over reacting eg' ahhhhh she looked to the left and not to the right this morn!!'

What if's.....if only's.....

Phloxface

My females get split fins all the time and I never medicate them. They heal within 24 hours usually. Rocky's fins are quite a bit worse than a case of split fins so he needs it.

sirdarksol

This is a point, and I guess I didn't realize how quickly people medicate.
I don't plan to medicate Keiji until I see signs that his fins are actually degenerating.
The problem with antibiotics is that they are indiscriminate. They kill all bacteria. There are bacteria that live on the surface of nearly every creature. They are known as beneficial flora. Since our fish literally soak in the antibiotics, you're going to be killing that first line of defense as well as the finrot, making a second, much worse bout of finrot very likely.
Now I'm not saying "don't medicate," but I am saying you should be sure that medication is necessary. I also suggest being ready to treat the betta for what amounts to a damaged slime coat. Stresscoat, or some similar supplement, vitamins (which many of us use already), and therapeutic salt should all be used well after medication, to give the beneficial flora a chance to grow back. During this time, the betta should also be given as close to optimal water quality as possible. Frequent water changes, good water temp, close to proper pH (don't mess with this one unless your tap water is way off.

mlinden84

I made that mistake probably a month ago, thought the other 2 had it, but they just had split fins ( I've had "Betta" for 5 months now but the other two I've had for probably 2 months). "Strawberry" is red with mostly white fins, and he has this disgusting black "rot". His poor tail keeps shrinking.

As for the meds, I was adding the powder, waiting 48 hours (like it said), doing a small water change, then starting over. I will try adding the powder every 24 hours then after 2 days do a water change to see if that happens to make a difference. I bought my triple sulfa bulk from a local vet, and the printed instructions say "Add to 10 gallons of water. Repeat after 48 hours. A partial water change should be made between treatments." (each capsule contails sulfadiazine, sulfamethazine, sulfamerezine. 800 mg capsules)
Maybe its the meds? Should I switch?

Tazmiche

please do NOT take my post as a doubt of your own judgment ! It was purely my own thoughts whilst i too treat ripped fins/fin rot.

mlinden84

I think it was a good point to make. Personally, the first time my bettas had split fins I freaked out and medicated when I didn't need to. Simply a beginners mistake. I think we are so worried about it that the instant something is wrong we try to fix it. Maybe someone should sticky a post of pictures of a split fin and of fin rot and the differences to help beginners... just me thinking aloud but if someone wants to do it then great!
I feel like I have a little knowledge of bettas from having them for awhile and from reading lots of posts on here.... I love it, whenever I have a question or concern I just hop on here and get help. My bettas and I thank you all !!

armadillo

Oh noooo. I can't believe it. I am so sorry, Phloxface. Especially after it had started to regrow. I just don't get it.

cherryrose

Finrot is so hard to get rid of. My four boys have all had it at one time or another. They are all healthy now with fins either regrown or growing back. Barney and Benji had the worst cases. When I gave them a med break, extremely clean tanks and water, a variety of foods, and vitachem, they decided to clear up. Each fish is so different about how they respond to meds and vitamins though. My girls, strangely enough, never did get finrot. I am rooting for your little buddies and hope they recover soon.

CherryRose

Harley

i got hit with fin rot in my tiger barb tank and it was bad i had all my barbs in it at the time and they all got it! lucky only one died, but it was the leader of the tank and they would not stop fighting but they all have there fins back now! hope your fish gets better!! Heal fish Heal

COBettaCouple

we're really sorry to hear that the finrot came back but i think that the flat glass marbles make a good substrata. none of the bettas that we got after switching to them have gotten finrot and the one betta who had gravel for a short time is Aslan and he has been cleared of finrot since the 2nd time that we did a full trisulfa 10-day course.

armadillo

It's good to hear that some come back from severe cases, CherryRose. Encouraging news in these dark, fin-rotting times.

Thinking of you and Rocky, Phloxface.

Phloxface

Well, so far it doesn't look like it's gotten any worse. He only lost the regrowth, nothing more. I think it may be starting to regrow again. He's back on medicated food. Maybe this time with no substrate and a nice clean bowl bottom he'll get to finish growing his tail.

armadillo

I really hope so. Best of luck and courage, Phloxface.

ricktavious

My betta just had the same thing happen....but when the tail started to regrow, it was more colorful than it had been after it had initially started growing back after fin rot. Just curious if the same thing is going on for your fish.

nmwierman1977

Rj had a little accident with his tail this weekend too. He somehow snagged it on one of the plants, even though it's silk the only part that's are the leaves, so I think he may have tried to squeeze through an area that had a plastic piece and he got it caught on it. So now I moved Fred in with Pebbles and Bam-Bam for the time being and I took that plant out and sucked out all the poop that was in there. I started giving him full doses of vitachem instead of half everyday and when I first caught it I added a tiny bit more of the Novaqua+ and Fish Protector to the water also. That's all I'm going to do for him right now, keeping his water free of dirt and poop and giving him extra vitamins. This is what I usually do when he has something like this happen. I don't believe in medicating unless it's absolutely needed.He has always recovered nicely when ever something happened to his fins or tail with just the extra vitamins and nice clean water and has never really had any fin rot develop from any accidents he may have caused to himself.

mlinden84

I took out all the gravel today. Left the huge plastic sword plant w/ the weighted base. I took Strawberry out when I did this, so I also did a 100% water change. I started the second dose of Triple Sulfa. I haven't noticed much of a change after the first treatment, if anything his tail has gotten worse.
Phloxface - how is yours doing?

voiceless_kat

Hi guys.....this fin/tail rot dilemma. What a quandry we are all in. I have tried everything on each case of fin rot I had to treat. The weirdest thing is the sickest fish I had...Storm....had fin rot, but when he was at his sickest with dropsy, his tail had grown back and he was beautiful! ( Well, except for that big belly, poor little guy). I would rather have had him without his beautiful long tail, if it meant he could have been with me longer.

Neptune will show a little fray at the end of his tail every now and then. If when it grows back, it has any red in it, I know it too will fray at some time or other. I have treated with different meds, settling usually on Maracyn Plus, then tried just Vita Chem and fish protector every second day. The rate of his healing is exactly the same.

Little Wink Jack Sparrow frayed his tail. I did a round of Maracyn Plus,. always Vita Chem, and it starts to grow back. He continues to be a manic little guy!

However, although I have seen a tail go from perfect to frayed within an hour or two.....I have never, ever seen the healing that some people are posting. Like the next day they see regrowth

Most people who keep their bettas in rose bowls and vases, don't have substrate. And as many of us have observed, their fish usually don't have finrot??!! So maybe it is the substrate?? How often can you vacuum and do water changes on a cycled tank without screwing up the good "bacteria" and either getting a mini cycle , or having to start over totally??

I hate to think of the tanks without any susbstrate.....the bigger tanks would look pretty funny without anything in them, or just the decorations and plants sitting on the bottom of the tank, however, that may be where we are heading.

I would try it in Neptunes 6g first if I do it, before I did the divided 10. I worry about food left from the cory cats that gets between the substrate!!

Anyway, just adding my thoughts. I am most thankful, however, that we worry more about fin/tail rot than the fish do. Well, I have never seen what I would call "rot" or infection or icky stuff...just fraying. My guys all think they are beautiful all of the time!! When Neptune was the only fish I had ( and my first) I panicked at every little thing....I am sure even at stuff that they are supposed to do, just cuz I didn't know/. Now, if I see a fray, I feel bad, but don't panic, haven't really been medicating, and just enjoy the fish. I worry that continually using any one of those meds, that if something serious does come along, they will be ineffective.

Anyway, rambling...........Mlinden and Phlox, I hope things look up...mean time, don't worry so much you forget to just enjoy their company!!

Val

armadillo

Well I've got next to no substrate now. Just a pebble here and there for deco, but mainly bare bottom. And it doesn't seem to have made a difference. I vaccuum every day.

mlinden84

It's just frustrating. We do everything and anything to help them and sometimes it doesn't matter. Yet people have them in a small vase with a plant on the top, rarely feed them, no heater, no filtration, and they can live years....I don't understand it.
Update on Strawberry: He has a little more damage, but I'm not seeing as much of the black rot. I'm hoping this is a good sign!

The tank does look empty without the gravel, but i think it will be a lot easier to clean. I'm getting new decorations this week for the other bettas, so I may take out their gravel as well. We'll see how it goes.

Phloxface

Rocky's tail hasn't gotten any worse and he has only lost some of the regrowth he had. I guess that's a good sign. The finrot isn't progressing. He's still happy as a clam and unaware of anything being wrong. He loves his medicated pellets and seems happy to be back on them...go figure...

Niles split his tail fin last week almost all the way to his body, probably from playing under the filter intake. I gave him a good gravel vac and big water change and his tail has now healed up completely with no meds.

I don't intend to take out the gravel in all my tanks... the gravel I use, the small polished river rocks, seem to stay very clean. The dirt stays mostly at the top and is easily vacuumed away. I only remove substrate from a hospital tank when being treated for finrot (or possibly anything else) since you want as little bacteria as possible. I don't think gravel causes finrot if it is properly maintained. The problem is when the substrate is too large a lot of dirt falls between and it may look clean but you really see how much dirt is there when you empty it out completely. I was shocked at how much dirt was still in Rocky's bowl in spite of using a gravel vac!
I use small gravel in all my other tanks and have never had a finrot problem in any of them.

armadillo

I don't get it either. Am almost contemplating putting him in a vase and ignoring him. To see if it improves the finrot.

mlinden84

But could you really do that? I think it would bother you more than him.... It would break my heart to put them in those little vases and ignore them! I'm a big softie when it comes to my fish.... and my daughter... lol ok so everything!!

armadillo

Yeah, I don't know that I could.

mlinden84

Now this is purely me thinking aloud here... don't want anyone thinking I'm gonna go do this to my bettas...

But I wonder if all the cases of finrot that we are dealing with have something to do with the way they are kept. Maybe heaters? True they are tropical fish, but maybe the higher temps are making the finrot worse? Or maybe it has something to do with the filtration? Or maybe a combination of all the things we do to keep them "healthy" and happy.... I'm probably wrong, but it's worth looking farther into I think....