Jenn_E

I hope somebody can help me understand what happened....

My boyfriend and I have a 30 gallon fresh water tank. We had several goldfish, some guppies, a betta, a pleco, 2 tetras, 2 glofish, 2 painted glass fish, and 1 zebra danio. We started our tank with just the goldfish at the beginning of March. We gradually over time added the others. Besides having to treat for ICH once at the very beginning we have had no problems.

We did a major water change once a few months back, but other than that we haven't done any. We did top off the water level when it evaporates, and always with water that has sat out for at least a week. Our fish have always been happy, healthy, frisky, and lively.

Last night I fed them about an hour before turning off their light. This was around 2am. My boyfriend turned on there light this morning and fed them again around 10am. He says at this time he noticed no problems. At 2pm I came home and noticed that the goldfish were extremely lethargic. Some were resting on the bottom of the tank while others seemed to mindlessly float through the water and bump into one another. The other, smaller fish seemed fine.

My boyfriend said they were just being lazy and gave them a small pinch of food. The usually greedy, hungry goldfish did not eat it. The smaller fish did. The temperature was 76 degrees. We checked the filter and noticed it was very clogged- possibly from over feeding. We rinsed out the filter and turned up the air stone thinking that maybe they needed more oxygen.

We went to the store and bought a few new fish, grabbed some dinner and came back around 6pm. All of our goldfish were dead. So was one tetra, the two glofish, the zebra danio, and a guppy.

We quickly moved all of the surviving fish into a new 20 gallon tank with a new filter and new water. We added some stuff to treat any chlorine in the water and some good bacteria. I had to leave for work (where I am now) and left my boyfriend to deal with the tragedy...

I am so very upset. What could have happened so quickly to wipe out almost our entire aquarium? I feel so guilty. We've had some of the fish for 7 months and have had no problems. Why did the goldfish all die and most of the tinier fish survive? How can we prevent this from happening again

TedsTank

Possibly if your filter was clogged from "over feeding" you had a massive ammonia splike that killed them
Please check your water parameters, and if you want to keep tropical fish....get no more goldfish.

Chopstick

1st of all, you shouldnt mix goldfish with ani tropical fish, if you had several goldfish you were overstocked = high ammonia du to pooping (especially goldfish ) =/ water change should be done at each week since your overstocked. Then never rince your filter with tap water, only with your aquarium water.
1 goldfish = 20 gallon then add 10 gallon for each.

Hope that helped!

Shawnie

welcome to fishlore jenn-e!!!
lets all remember to welcome new members with the advice we give thank you!

Nick G

Hi Jenn_e, Welcome to Fishlore! Your fish probably died because of the tank being overstocked and too much Ammonia building up in the tank. There are loads of friendly helpful people on the forum who will be able to explain this better than I can, I'm sure someone will be along soon who can help

Lucy

Welcome to Fish Lore
I'm really sorry about your fish

How many are several gold fish? It's recommended 20g for 1 goldfish then 10g's for each additional gold fish. They can grow really big and produce a ton of waste.

Do you know your readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? When things go wrong, it's best to rule out water problems.

It's recommended that the water be changed weekly. This replenishes oxygen and minerals and keeps the nitrate level down.
In a cycled tank ammonia converts to nitrites, nitrites convert to nitrates.
Nitrates are harmless except in high levels.
After a few months, I imagine your nitrates must be through the roof.
There's only a couple of ways to keep the nitrates at a safe level. One is through weekly water changes, the other is to have a heavily planted tank. (The plants use the nitrates)

A couple other things to consider is your fish are not compatible with each other. The gold fish are a cooler water fish where the others are tropical.
Also, Most bettas are territorial, they usually don't make good community fish. It's recommended they be kept in at least 5g's by themselves.
Sometimes things work for a little while, then for whatever reason, the Betta can turn on the other fish or the other fish may start nipping at the betta.
It's possible the smaller fish are quicker and can hide easier than the larger slower goldfish.

Depending on your water readings, I'd recommend a good water change and again, give the betta a tank of it's own.

Edit: Wow, I typed slow. lol

iloveengl

Oh, I'm so sorry for your losses Jenn_e. *hug*

I'm gonna let someone else tackle the nitrogen cycle (though you can click the blue underline for the link to read about it).

It is important to do a partial water change once a week. For an overstocked tank, twice a week or more is necessary so that the fish waste doesn't build up and poison the fishies. This is likely what happened. I'm really sorry.

Because goldies are cold water and tropicals are warm (and need a heater), they don't make suitable tank mates (this may have contributed to the ICH, along with the water conditions).

It's really frustrating that so many of us (myself included) didn't learn about ammonia, test kits, water changes, etc. until after our sweet fishy die and we stumble upon this site. I wish pet stores would care more about their fish and their customers.

I'm sorry to welcome you on such a sad note, but we're all here for you and to help answer any questions you have.

Jenn_E

Thank you all so much for your fast, informative responses! It really is a shame that I didn't understand the nitrogen cycle, etc. before this happened. I had heard about water changes, but I honestly did not understand the reasoning or importance. I learned a very hard lesson and I feel so guilty.

I am going to take a water sample to the aquarium store tomorrow. I know they test your water for free...does this typically include readings for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates?

So far the fish that survived are doing well in the new 20 gallon tank and so are the new additions that we bought today. My boyfriend informed me that one goldfish has survived. Because of your advice, we will be moving him to a separate tank very soon. We will probably have our old 30 gallon tank be just for the lone survivor and possibly a new friend and keep the 20 gallon for the tropical fish. Is there anything important I should do (or not do) as we prepare the old tank and filter for use again? Can we still use the same decorations

I'm happy I found this site and am glad for the support! I hope to never go through something like this again.

ps Lucy - Our betta will be getting his own home tomorrow as well. We just bought a female today...can she live with the male?

Lucy

Don't feel guilty. If no one told you, how were you to know?
You're not alone in not knowing about cycling a tank before fish. I wish stores would educate their customers about it.

If it's a good fish store, they should. Be sure to ask and have them write down the numbers. Also take note if they're using strips or a liquid kit. The strips can be inaccurate. It would be a good idea to pick up a test kit. The API master kit is very reliable.

For the 30g tank, I hope you'll consider cycling it without fish. This way you can avoid ammonia or nitrite poisoning. Cycling with fish weakens their immune system leaving them open to dsease and illness.
Here's Four Methods of Fish Less Cycling.
Depending on the readings in your current tank, option #4 would probably work very well for you.
Do you mean using the filter and decorations that have been lying around from the 30g or the ones in the 20g?

In case you haven't seen it, here's our Betta Care Guide

We're happy you found us too

joy1125

HI Jenn, wlelcome to FishLore.

No, the female betta cannot live with the male. And 2 male bettas cannot live together either. It's best to keep one male betta alone.

Regarding your new 20 gallon setup. It isn't cycled, so you'll have to do 50 percent daily water changes in order to keep the ammonia level at 0. I suggest purchasing your own water testing kit (since you'll be testing the water twice daily). The API liquid test kit is really good (don't get the paper test strips, they aren't accurate). I also suggest buying a bottle of water conditioner called Prime, it dechlorinates the water, as well as detoxifies both ammonia and nitrite for 24 hours, which will make it safe for the fish in between water changes.

Also just wanted to say .... Don't beat yourself up about the mistakes you've made Jenn, we've all been there at some point in our fishkeeping experience...

A few things to keep in mind.....

Fish need fresh water. An aquarium is an enclosed environment, which isn't natural. In natural waterways, fish waste and bad bacteria have plenty of space to dissipate--- in a glass box it does not. So that is why frequent water changes are of the utmost importance.

Since you have a brand new filter, you won't need to rinse the filter media just yet. But when you do, just swish it in used tank water. Never rinse it out under the tap water, as the chlorine will kill the "good bacteria".

Also, do you have a gravel substrate ? And do you vacuum it ?

please feel free to ask us any question you have! We'll get you and the fish through this.

edited to include>> while cyclilng the 20 and 30 gallon, please do not purchase any new fish! Adding more fish will add to the ammonia issue, which will cause much more work for you, and will make it worse for the fish.
The cycling process can take as long as 6 weeks, and even when it is done cycling, fish need to be added very slowly -- you don't want to overwhelm the delicate new bacteria colony. Good luck, keep us posted on our your progress!

joy1125

Lucy !

Lucy

Joy. Thanks for addressing the betta question.
I got involved with the rest of the post and forgot to answer that question.

Jenn_E

Lucy,

I was referring to the decorations, filter, etc. from the 30 gal tank.

Another question- do I need to treat the fish that survived with anything in particular? If there was ammonia poisoning will they recover on their own?? My one fancy tailed male guppy just died. Will the others slowly die too??

joy1125

hi Jenn--- no, you don't need to treat the surviving fish with anything other than good clean water.

I'm going to be honest ..... some fish may not survive. They've been weakened by months of exposure to possible high ammonia, nitrite and/or high nitrAtes, all of which are toxic to fish.

But looking forward, just keep the water pristine. Buy the API test kit for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate, and test daily. Be diligent with the water changes. I suggest a 25 percent in the morning, and another 25 percent at nite, and use the Prime water conditioner.

the surviving fish are in a much healthier environment right now Jenn, and hopefully you won't have any more losses. good luck, keep us posted.

iloveengl

The best treatment for ammonia is daily partial water changes. The Prime will neutralize any remaining trace ammonia.

Rough analogy:
It's kinda like being in a really smoky room, so smoky, that you have trouble breathing, you get dizzy and confused, and your lungs burn - fish with ammonia poisoning suffer similarly. To treat inhalation, the first thing you do is remove the smoke from the environment and provide clean oxygen - in the fish's case this is done through daily partial water changes, gravel vacuuming of the remaining fish flakes and poo, and drops of Prime.

The sooner the ammonia is removed the water, the less likely fish are to pass. Some fish (guppys certainly) are even more sensitive (ermmm, kinda like an asthmatic in a smoky room) and the ammonia hurts them faster. They may not be able to recover; though, the pwc will give them a fighting chance.

I also agree that adding more fish is just adding more fuel to the fire. Is there any way to return them?

Okay, I've stretched that analogy to the breaking point, but I hope it helped.

AlyeskaGirl

I am sorry about loosing your fish. Great advice above. We all startout not knowing much or nothing at all, only then to find this wonderful site for help, so Welcome to FishLore!

I'm in the process of teaching a very new hobbiest of tank maint. basically trying to save his overstocked tank that has been running for 2 1/2 months without a water change. Doesn't know a thing. Just that he is loosing fish and is tired of it. I tested his tank two days ago and it had ammonia zero which I tested with my API liquid test, ran out of the nitrAte so I had to test with a strip just to get an idea and it was 200ppm or more!!!! So basically what I am getting at is water changes, usually 25% for me are a must every 7-10 days depending on your stock, nitrAte level (some test first and change accordingly) and rinsing your filter media in bucket of tank water to get the gunk off. I wish all the best for you and your fish.

bolivianbaby

Welcome to Fishlore, Jenn The other members have you covered in regards to your original post. We're glad you're here and please never hesitate to ask questions. Most of us have been where you are right now and will be glad to help you in whatever way we can

I also agree-don't beat yourself up over the losses. We'll all be happy to help you move forward from here.

Jenn_E

Hello everyone,

I'm just leaving a quick update...

Took the water to the aquarium store yesterday to be tested. As you all assumed, the water was filthy and had very high levels of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

The new aquarium has been doing pretty well. We lost the last goldfish yesterday and one painted glassfish this morning. Of our original fish only 3 guppies, the male betta, the pleco, and one painted glassfish remain. They all seemed to be struggling a bit yesterday morning, but by the evening they actually seemed pretty lively and healthy. The betta in particular seems very happy...swimming around more than ever. Probably happy to be less crowded and have cleaner water. He will be getting his own home shortly. All of our new fish are doing great.

We have been doing water changes..25% in the morning and 25% in the evening. We will be purchasing a test kit either tonight or tomorrow (money is tight, otherwise it would have already been bought!)

Thanks for all of the advice and support...it means a lot! Hopefully we won't lose anymore fishies!

Lucy

Thanks for the update.
I'm sorry you lost some fish.

Looks like things are looking up, keep up the water changes until the tank cycles and continued good luck to you.