Psychlist1972

Hi All

This site is awesome. I've learned a ton over the past few weeks, and decided to join just the other day.

I have 10g and 20g established tanks. I picked up a 55g to replace the 10g. My plan is to have a heavily planted tank, move the zebra danios, mystery snails, and mollies from the 10g, and the two plecos from the 20g into the 55g.

My question has to do with water quality. We have a well here, and a water softener. The softener adds bleach/chlorine and soda ash to the water, and (I believe) trace amounts of salt. Don't quote me on the salt, just going by the huge salt tank I have to refill all the time.

Our pH fluctuates quite a bit, and we're always wrestling with that thing, especially after rainy periods and during seasonal changes. I know when I feel the burn in my throat, that the pH is screwed up again. I never realized how much water can change over time. We live in the woods (lots of oak), so it is naturally very acidic water, the softener tends to over compensate (maybe sucks up a clump of poorly dissolved soda ash or something) and we end up with very high pH. We've had some extremes when we first moved here, but it generally stays between 6 and 8.

Second concern is our copper pipes in the house appear to leach copper into the water. I'm basing this on the green stain in our master shower floor.

To date, I've been using Deer Park spring water for the two tanks. It has worked well, but the Peapod guy is probably getting tired of lugging that water up to our kitchen. Once I start with the 55g, there will be a serious amount of water to haul

So, do you think I can treat our tap water in some reasonable way? I'm concerned about copper (I have snails) and of the overall water quality and pH fluctuations.

I'm fine with slowly acclimating the fish to the tap water over a course of weeks/months if that's the right approach. Of course, I'd prefer not to have to go out and get 50 gallons of Deer Park to start the tank

If you all think the tap water is workable, I'm also fine with acclimating them in the 10g and 20g through my weekly water changes, and leaving the 55g without fish for however long it takes to do that.

Pete

Lucy

Hi Pete welcome to Fish Lore, glad you decided to join.
I don't have well water so I can't be much help but wanted to welcome you aboard!

aquarist48

Good morning. I have well water but I don't have any water softeners added to it. I have a high pH level. So high it's off the charts. I have to mix tap with distilled and spring before starting a new tank. Once I get the tank to 8.0 pH, I can just add tap period and the pH doesn't get over 8.5 when I do my water changes. 25g's at a time. To my knowledge all of the piping is PVC and not copper.

I know we have a chemist or two as members. Maybe they will see this thread and be able to help you more.

Best of luck and hope you can share some pictures along the way.
Ken

TedsTank

Hi Pete and Welcome.
I'm in calvert county and we have same problem here with the water. I have ended up getting an RO filter...works wonderful...all my tanks are stable. Im raise SA dwarf cichlids and am using pure RO for soft acid conditions, but it could be mixed with tap water to adjust.
This whole aquifer we tap into (southern md) is very hard water as you know....I kept spawning angelfish for a while and never got a hatch!!!...after adjusting the water down with the RO, bang! babies everywhere.

SWilkins

My sister has well water and also has a water softener. When I set up my shrimp and snail tanks since they are sooo sensitive I go get water from her BUT I get the water from the hose outside before it gets to the softener. Now my shrimp tanks are not over 20g and I just do this to start them. After that when I do water changes I use my tap water with declor.

Anyway what I was trying to ask or say in that book up there is do you have copper pipes before the water gets to your softener? IMO well water is great since you have no chemical additives from the city or county. I wish I had it...it would save me loads with all the declor I buy. Well I can see I am going to ramble all day so I will tell you so sorry and leave you alone now.

Oh and a great big welcome to FishLore!!!

bolivianbaby

Welcome to Fishlore Looks like the other members have you covered!

Psychlist1972

Thanks Ted

The water coming from the ground is VERY hard. I had some plumbing replaced and it was almost completely blocked with build-up. If (when) the softener stops for some reason, the water that comes out of the shower heads won't produce any lather with soap. heh.

I can't really afford to get a RO system right now, but I'm glad to see you had success with it.

Pete

Psychlist1972

Thanks

The water from our tap out front (prior to entering the softener) has a strong rotton egg/poo/stale smell. We're pretty sure it's not sulphur, but it smells similar to that sometimes. All our neighbors have the same thing; it's just some yucky characteristic of the water here - no idea what, but given that the chlorine removes it, it's probably organic.

I wouldn't be able to stand to have a tank full of that in the house. Not sure if any of the treatment products would remove whatever that is. Our softener removes it through the bleach we add. If we skip the bleach, we get smelly water.

That said, my wife will only use that or bottled water for her plants. 55g of it might be a bit hard on the nose, though.

Pete

PS. It runs through very little copper to get to that tap.

SWilkins

Nope could not do that smell.....ewwww....I have smelled that before...not even 10 gallons much less 55! Just my opinion but if your water just runs through a little copper pipe I think it would be safe if you used your dechlor.

TedsTank

Again, I too have copper pipes....old..our house was built in the 50's and pieces added on til now. Never had problems with the copper that I'm aware of. Never had trouble with most of the fish until I decided to go South American ciclids. We have a deep well system in the communty but is treated, never had the sulfer stink problem. Some of my family up the road (Dunkirk area) have a well and it is foul....they had to put in a softener system that de-stinks the water.
I got a counter top top RO unit just for the tanks...its a miracle!!!...put one on your wish list....or
Could you possibly catch rain water into a large tank??.400-500 gal farm supply..Filter it at the source... that size would get u thru the dry seasons. I'm still toying with that idea....
I'm obviously trying to steer u away from all the chemical treatments...they can occasionally backfire.

Regal

I just thought I'd share my experience with well water though it's not much.

We hooked up to city water here but my sister has well water with that sulpher smell and a ph that's off the top of the high range test kit.

I had way too many angel pairs and had raised some of the babies. (it was getting out of hand) She bought a 125 gallon tank and now has about 15 of my angels in it. they all survived but there were several breeding pairs that have not laid eggs since she has had them for the last 6 months or so. Her water smells terrible but the tank water doesn’t smell that way. I don't know if the smelly stuff evaporates or what. Seems like the angels survive her water but are not really thriving.

ABCDemily

Personally, I'd invest in a reverse osmosis unit. Expensive, but it can be used for purifying drinking water as well. If you want to lower you pH, invest in some bogwood, it's naturally lowering, and it looks nice in a natural themed tank.

I hope you get everything sorted.

Psychlist1972

Thanks all

All great suggestions, but RO and rainwater aren't options right now due to cost and plain old project size (rainwater collection would be non-trivial here; my downspouts route under ground and then out on the side of a ravine). I'll do some water tests and see what I find in my own water compared to the spring water I was using. Unfortunately the tests will only tell me the usual suspects (nitrate/nitrite/ammonia/hardness/pH) and nothing about anything else. Truthfully, it's probably no worse than the bottled stuff if the recent news stories are to be believed :P

From the posts here, sounds like I may be too concerned about the copper and my snails.

Unless you see a reason not to, I'm going to treat some of my tap water (if the pH seems reasonable) and start mixing it into my 10g and 20g tanks during weekly 10-20%water changes. Hopefully the fish will acclimate and I can have them in 100% tap by the time I get them to the 55.

If that's dumb *please* let me know. Otherwise, thanks for the help

Pete

Psychlist1972

BTW, when I cycle the 55g, I was thinking of just using a used filter cartridge from the 20g (the goldfish tank).

Assuming that will work, other than dechlorinating the water, do I need to add anything else?

Also, if I have an existing bacteria-filled filter cartridge in that tank, I imagine it should cycle fairly quickly (at least from reading in the forums here). Seem reasonable? I'll test, of course, just looking to set expectations.

Pete

gmen4life

well i would test the water before treatment with a API test kit and see what it shows then dd conditioner to some if it and test it after to see if it is safe? mybe have to use prime as a full dose on your whole tank?

JohnnyGoldfish

I have well water and the smell, but the basic filter eliminates the smell. Just a basic filter found at Wal-Mart.

My PH is off the charts as well. I put in drift wood and the PH dropped over night. It was still high but under 8.0 maybe 7.6. I’ll check again today.

I’ll look into a reverse osmosis unit too. I’m worried about my first 25-30% water change with the well water. Maybe another piece of wood sitting in a bucket would bring it down in a day or two.

Psychlist1972

I'm interested in something I can maintain well, so I'll see if I can get my fish to adjust. My wife tries to keep the house pH around 7, maybe a little less. Our pH from the outside, directly from the well, is lower than the test kit will read.

I just did some quick pH tests with the API kit:
The Deer Park Spring Water I've been using: 6.4
The Deer Park Distilled water I tried once, but it chem burned the goldfish: max 6, maybe below chart.
Our house water, between 6.8 and 7

The 55g tank has a piece of driftwood I'll be using in there, so the pH will probably drop a little, but I imagine that changes over time.

Do you all think a gradual change from 6.4 to 6.8/7 by mixing in my tap water (softened well water) will be doable for these guys? I imagine the goldies will appreciate something slightly less acidic anyway. (the goldies will be staying in their own tank, the tropicals in the 10g and the two plecos in the goldfish tank are moving to the 55g)

@gmen4life what is "dd conditioner"? Is that a specific brand of water conditioner?

Pete

TedsTank

Pete sounds like u have it all under control!!!...your ph is fine by readings you posted...and yes your fish will adapt if allowed to do so sort of slowly. There is sooo much experience available on this site, and if you have noticed everyone does a little different. Your mission, should you accept, is to find WHAT WORKS FOR YOU...as you sort thru the help here.

The driftwood will assist in lowering your ph and acidity...but it leaches out with time. Being in Anne Arundel County you haver access to some great beaches and waterways...keep an eye out for some hardwood driftwood pieces.
Enjoy this project, your tank, and please keep us posted....

JohnnyGoldfish

I'm still at 7.6

thanks for the great thread!

Lucy

I think that was a typo. He meant add conditioner.

rileyrk190

I know someone who keeps fish and has well water. At least where i am from the well water seems to be high in sulfur and iron, but i would think if you used a delcholinator rated to remove heavy metals it should remove anything in the water..but that is just an assumption.

Psychlist1972

Thanks everyone.

I did a water change today using water from my tap. Filled a 5g bucket with about 4g and treated it, then added it to the tank. With the goldfish tank, I was dumb and forgot to warm the water up a bit (forgot how much cooler it comes out of the ground). Goldfish huddled in the corner for a bit, were back to their usual selves in short order. I put some stresscoat in there with the new water.

For the 10g tropicals (which will eventually be in the 55), I made sure the water temps matched and did the change the same way, but with about 2g. Everyone there seems fine.

So, looks like the well water (treated) will be a go. I'll keep an eye on it this week and keep doing my usual 10-20% weeklies with the tap water, eventually getting them fully converted over if all goes well.

Thanks for all the help and ideas. I think when we have to replace our water softener (it's already about 15 years old) we'll have a RO system put in at the same time. I'm in no hurry for that to happen, though

Pete

ZomZom

I'm also in Anne Arundel County (Davidsonville) and have a well with a chlorine tank and water softener. I use a Python direct from the tap into the tanks and my GloFish and Albino Cory Cats do fine with it.

My chlorine is very minimal, just barely enough to kill the sulfur bacteria that cause the rotten egg smell. The chlorine doesn't even show up on test kits. I still add conditioner, though.

I had added bags of crushed coral to my filters to buffer my pH, but I found that they clouded the water. I've since removed them, but found them necessary when fishless cycling.

Good luck and try things one step at a time and you'll be fine.

aquarist48

Pet I have that same smell in my well water. Another reason I pre filter my water through activated carbon for water changes prior to it going into my tank. It "does" remove the odor.
Ken

Psychlist1972

@aquarist48

I saw your water change routine on another thread. Impressive, and looks like it works really well.

@ZomZom

We're pretty close to each other. I live in the part of Gambrills that borders Crofton, Crownsville and Davidsonville. I've done a few partial water changes now with the well water, and it is working, umm, well

I just started a new tank downstairs and am using my treated well water for that. One thing I never realized was just how cold the water was coming from the taps in the basement. I used the washing machine cold water line and an aquarium hose to fill up the tank. Temp of the water was about 67 degrees. It's up to 70 in the tank now after sitting overnight.

Pete