JennDFK

I am treating my fish with meds right now and it says not to do any water changes until the meds are done. It is also a newly cycled tank, however, and I'm checking my ammonia, nitrates and nitrites 4-6 times a week. Well today I tested and I'm showing .25ppm nitrites (ammonia is still at 0 and nitrates 10). I think I might have disrupted my cycle removing filter media for the meds. I have a bio wheel and they put the carbon inside the sponge. So what do I do?

Here is a link to why I'm treating my fish:
Rainbow fish with white "fuzz" on mouth...

JennDFK

Just a thought...Could the meds be causing a false read on the test?

Shawnie

did you remove the entire filter media? because you can just dump out the carbon..some say the bio wheels hold alot of bacteria but I think the media plays a huge part also... I guess it could be giving a false reading with the meds but MOST meds will cause a mini cycle...whenever this happens, I think its owners choice because only you can see how sick or not the fish are and you know what ammonia and nitrites do so its got to be your call...

JennDFK

[quote=Shawnie;604439]did you remove the entire filter media? because you can just dump out the carbon..some say the bio wheels hold alot of bacteria but I think the media plays a huge part also[quote]

Yes unfortunatly we did... just some crossed wires between my husband and I. He was taking care of the medications and took out the media not knowing that he could simply take the carbon out.

I know that I'm the only one who can make the decision... I just feel a little lost. I bought these rainbow fish from a reputable fish store and I'm just so mad that they are sick and I can't help them. I've spent so much money on meds and I've only got a day and a half left to treat them. I just didn't know how to weigh the two problems... and I'm new enough to fish keeping that I don't know how serious .25 PPM is to the fish health as opposed to a potentially fatal bacterial infection... or if there is possibly another way to lower the nitrites or protect the fish from them (Prime?) without changing the water?

Shawnie

i just read your other thread as I never saw it before...im sorry you are going through such an issue jenn and hopefully im not going to upset anything by saying this but sometimes, new fish get boo boos and injuries and get things in a new tank because of them getting use to a new home....whenever we go look at a site with "diseases" , theres usually 3-4 pics that "could" be what we are seeing on our babies....im not sure if from your other thread, it was even a disease to begin with ...the fish act normal, eat normal, swim normal, and just have the small whiteness on their lips....if it were me, and im not telling you what to do, again, thats got to be your decision, but I would go the partial water changes with the prime and stop the meds...you havent seen any change with the meds with the exception of the nitrites being present....as well as prime, id try some fresh garlic juice (3 drops with each water change) and some stress coat to heal ....again, its just my opinion and not that things were done wrong, but its time for a new more natural approach maybe? goodluck either way in whatever you decide and dont loose faith!!! its all part of learning and we all learn more every day

JennDFK

Thanks for your replyShawnie... I agree about the meds not working and a different approach being in order... I really wanted to go a more natural route... but when I started reading about columnaris I got kind of scared... and since it was affecting two fish in the exact same way I assumed it must be fungal or bacterial... and so treating both seemed like the logical approach.

I can't do a water change until tonight anyway... so I'll mull it all over and make a plan of action... In the meantime if anyone feels like chiming in with some ideas I'm all ears (or should I say eyes).

Thank,
Jenn

Shawnie

maybe the 2 with the issue, have been sparring off ? or bumped into something ? are they still acting fine other than their lips? this was a week ago that you started, and they certainly would have had other negative effects, I would think , if it was any of those.. if it was columnaris or even something like bacteria or fungus, they wouldnt be still acting ok and some other signs would be showing up by now..either way , I wish you a ton of luck and hope everything works out well!!!

JennDFK

They aren't sparing as far as I can tell. They are eating fine... their color is good... That is... as far as I know. I am new to keeping rainbows and I don't really know their temperment. They are goyder river rainbows and I have one parkinsoni... and I will admit that he is a little bit more fiesty than they are. The white fungus-y looking growth on their lips looks kind of thread-like. I tried getting a good picture... but the pictures I got were worse than my discription (Yeah I know... That bad).

It hasn't seemed to change in appearance much since I started treating... if anything it is a little better, but not much.

I really wish I could get a good photo.

joy1125

so true Shawnie! The internet has great potential to turn us into a bunch of paranoid fish hypochondriacs I'm not talking about you Jenn, I'm talking about me and I'm sure I'm not alone! LOL. Who here hasn't googled some bizarre fish problem , only to find numerous websites and forums with pictures that look exactly like what our fish has . If you read long enough, you'll find many conflicting diagnosis and disease remedies, and always find at least one comment from someone claiming that their fish died a horrible death from it! I'm finding the best route is to come to one or two reputable places (like here) and vet sites.... otherwise, you risk scaring the heck outta yourself needlessly, or worse, misdiagnosing the problem and giving the wrong treatment.


jenn, hope what you see on the fish turns out to be nothing. Like Shawnie said, sometimes new fish spar, and we're not around to see it. And sometimes fish exhibit weird markings or imperfections that could just be related to stress, and they go away once the fish become comfortable in their new surroundings. Hope this is the case.... and once you get a picture up, hopefully someone can identify it and give you some peace of mind !

about the nitirite, I'd do a water change, absolutely. Doesn't have to be huge, but enough to bring it down to zero, and if you decide to stick with the meds, add the supplemental dose to account for the water change.

good luck with it.

JennDFK

I guess I'll do a small water change right before I dose them with meds tonight... I might as well finish them since they are antibiotics...and then work on my new plan of attack. Sadly it looks like my third rainbow fish has just a trace of something on his lip as well... and it might be the nitrites... but they all seem a bit sluggish today as well.

I may be wrong but my gut says that it is not an injury. It is just weird that two fish and possibly now a third all have a fungus-y looking growth in the exact same spot... It just doesn't look like an injury.... but who the heck knows...

Jenn

ccb04

If you wanted to finish the meds ... prehaps atleast dose the tank with Prime ... adding it straight to the tank. That would allow you to atleast detox the nitrites while continuing the meds.

The directions on the Prime bottle state: "May be added to aquarium directly, but is better if added to new water first. If adding directly to the aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume."

The directions also state: "To detoxify nitrites in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used."

If you wanted to add it straight to the tank ... I would start off with dosing the entire tanks volume at 2 drops per gallon (the standard dose), and see if that remedies your problem. If not, then prehaps slowly increase the dosage. To disperse it more efficiently when adding it directly to your tank ... put it in directly in front of your filters output.

joy1125

is there any way you post a pic Jenn? even a cell phone pic will be helpful. Turn off the filter and any aeration you have going (so bubbles don't get in the way of the picture). Don't worry about getting an extreme close up, usually when we click a photo, it will enlarge.

JennDFK

Well I did a water change last night... I just did about 6-7 gallons (a bit over 10%)... but my water test is showing nitrites again this AM... and it looks like there might even be a trace of ammonia (although I have a little trouble telling the 0 from the .25 in the morning light).

I got a very blurry pic... (it turns out fish don't like to stand still and get their picture taken... getting a blury one was almost as difficult as getting a passport photo for a toddler)... but unfortunatly I can't find the stupid cord that I use to download my photos. I found every cord but the right one. If I find it I will post a pic.

Until then I guess I'll just do the water chang and hope for the best.

Jenn

JennDFK

Well like I said I did about a 7 gallon change last night... and then another 8 today... and I'm still showing .25ppm nitrites... I dosed it with a extra prime for good measure. I guess I need to do another water change? or will the prime protect the fish from the nitrites until I can do another bigger one tomorrow?

Thanks,
Jenn

Shawnie

prime will be fine for 24 hours....I was so hoping things were looking up for you how are the fishy babies handling it? goodluck!

JennDFK

They are just hanging together in a little group. The third rainbow has something on his lip for sure now...

Yesterday after I did the water change and gave them some grub they were a little more active for a while. I thought I might have seen two of them rubbing themselves against a rock. I don't see any other skin irratations....but really no change... I'm stumped. I don't really know what to do next. Oh well I'm sure it will work itself out. Thanks for all the support and advice it really is helpful.

Jenn

joy1125

hmmm, somethings going on, 3 fish now have the same thing, only on the mouth, right? It could be mouth fungus (which isn't a fungus-- it's bacterial-- and contagious) You're familiar with columnaris, does this look/sound like what the fish may have? If it is, you'll need to start a different treatment. I've never had any fish with columnaris, but I'm sure others here have and will st recommend what worked for them.

Or it'd probably be best to start a new thread about mouth fungus (columnaris), being this one is titled about nitrites. It'll get the attention of posters who have had experience with it.

Good luck Jenn!

JennDFK

I've been treating them for columnaris for 5 days now... and I've been giving them fungal treatment for 6. Here is the thread: Rainbow fish with white "fuzz" on mouth... I'm done with both meds and still no change (the box says you can use them together). I'm really stumped. I'm thinking parasite? I have QuICK Cure... but I wasn't sure if I should use it or not. I'm afraid to use the temp method just in case it is some antibiotic resisitant form of columnaris. High temps speed up it's progress and can kill the fish. The good news is that the fish are still eating and don't look pale. Columnaris, from what I've read, usually kills swiftly if not treated... and causes lots of tissue damage. The problem has stayed on the lips and not spread.

I was planning on doing a big water change today and possibly using the quick cure.... but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

JennDFK

I just checked my water before doing a change... Now I have nitrites and ammonia. .25 ppm of both. I'm done with the meds... but since they didn't work I was thinking about using some quick cure.

When the fish got sick the water was fine... so my water quaility is not what made the fish sick. I've treated for bacterial and fungal problems... Now what? I know I need to do a big water change... but I don't know if I should hold off on the meds or not.

Shawnie

IMO , I would take care of the mini cycle, added with some stress coat+ and vita chem if you can find it, and go from there once the cycle completes again ...

JennDFK

Thanks Shawnie... I look for the vita chem tomorrow.

About 3 hrs after the water change the readings where 0 on ammonia and nitrites again. I'll test for the next few days and do water changes accordingly.

Thanks again,
Jenn

Shawnie

your welcome and I hope things get better soon for you ...frustration can sometimes overrun us ..goodluck !

alicem

I'm no expert, but I feel that you may want to get the previous meds out of the tank before starting new ones.
I would think several water changes and then carbon in the filter would remove the old meds.
This also would give your filter time to stabilize even more, since the cycle has completed.

Often, merely having really clean water will heal a alot of health problems.

We're all pullin' for you, Jenn.
alicem

prairielilly

Unfortunately meds don't ALWAYS fix the issue, much as we'd like (been there, been discouraged by that...) It can be very stressful for fish to go through being medicated time and time again, as the chemicals can 'build up' in their systems. The meds should have helped, but since they didn't, I'd follow the advice above and in the other posts - take care of the mini-cycle so as to avoid stress, remove the meds from the system with wc's and carbon, and just provide good clean water, stresscoat and vitachem, a stress-free environment and nutritious food. This will be like 'rehabilitation' for your fish - the best conditions possible, which will make them the healthiest possible, and (hopefully) strengthen their immune systems enough that they can heal themselves.

Good luck Jenn

JennDFK

Well I'm working on getting the cycle under control first. I did a 20% change today and added some extra prime to make sure that my fish are feeling good. There isn't any ammonia showing today... but there were still nitrites. It might be wishful thinking... but the fuzz looks a little less fuzzy today... but who knows. Thanks for all the good vibes and well wishes.

Jenn

JennDFK

Still showing nitrites (.25) and doing daily 20% water changes... the fish still have the fuzz on their lips... not any better... not any worse. I feel like I'm in some time loop where I'm reliving the same day over and over again...Remember the movie Groundhogs Day?

alicem

Yup, sure do.

Your tank is pretty new (if it's the 55G started in May) and the filter is still tender and easily goofed up.
You are doing the right thing by keeping the water changed and waiting to add new meds until the cycle is completed again.

Have you been reading about the next meds that you might try, to see if they will affect your biological filter again?
Or is there an alternative method to deal with the fuzz?

I feel for you Jenn, this is such a hassle and worry. You hang in there girl, it'll be worth it when it's over.
Here's a hug from Illinois
alicem

Shawnie

aww jenn give it some more time..I know patience is the hardest thing to do in this obession LOL ..but I would recommend getting something to QT these fuzzy guys if its still there when the cycle is fixed...MOST MEDS will screw up the cycle and a plastic tub with a filter and such is much easier to heal fish then attempting an entire tank again.....great job on keeping up the water changes !

JennDFK

I don't really know where to start since I have no idea what it is. They are certainly not getting any worse.... and I don't know if I'm just getting used to it... but it seems a little less fuzzy then when it first started.

A gal at the pet shop recommended Melafix...She even offered to take the fish for store credit (even though I didn't buy them there) if it failed to work. Nice offer but I've been through too much with these guys to give up on them. Any thoughts about melafix?

Shawnie

ive read others using it sucessfully...I think lucy has recommended it ....ive never used it myself tho....deffinately qt them if you attempt it tho....i wouldnt want to give up on them either but what a great great fish store you have!